Won't make at school!!!

Chippies

Wed, Nov 23 2011, 12:48 pm

My now almost 3 year old DS still won't make at school. He has made the occasional pee, but it is always a fight. And a #2 has yet to happen in the toilet at school. He's been potty trained for several months now and never has an accident at home or if I'm nearby. But he absolutely refuses to make a poo with anyone other than me or my husband, so that includes the morah. So far, he's had three "accidents". They aren't actually accidents at all, though - he just refuses to sit on the toilet so he makes in his underwear. Today was one of those days. The morah told me that she tried to put him on the toilet when she saw that it was on its way, but he said to her, "Mommy lets me make in my underwear". She obviously still tried, but he started making a fuss and didn't let her near him. When I spoke to him about it, I asked him why he didn't make on the toilet and he responded, "because I didn't want to get into a fight with the morah". I don't understand that logic at all. I explained that big boys only make in the toilet and I again tried to bribe him (I've already offered him treats if he pees and a brand new truck if he poos) and he said, "nah. I prefer to hold it in and make for you, mommy. I won't go for the morah. nah. I won't go at school."

No bribe is working!!! I'm so frustrated. I decided to take away his trucks (he's obsessed with trucks) for this afternoon and tomorrow morning explaining that trucks are toys for big boys, but big boys make in the toilet and not in their pants.

I've never punished him before. I realize that this punishment seems rather separate from his act (and keep in mind that it wasn't an accident, he understands exactly what he's doing), but trucks seem to be the best motivator these days and it's not working as a bribe. I'm all out of ideas.

And by the way, I already brought to school his favourite potty seat, but it doesn't seem to help. The morah reminds him about how many treats he'll get if he makes there, and how I'll give him special treats and a new truck, etc. at home. But no success.

Any advice? I'm going to try this punishment thing...but I doubt it'll work. He's generally a very high anxiety kid and hates change and trying new things, but this has been our biggest challenge yet.

amother

Wed, Nov 23 2011, 2:34 pm

OMG, I just had this with my daughter, who is the same age. She never once had an accident, though, she would just hold it in for the whole five hour school day. She has a history of UTIs, so I was really nervous. This went on for two weeks, in which we tried every bribe and punishment under the sun, with no results. Finally, her teacher suggested I come down to school, and stay with her while she's on the toilet. B"h that did work, and she'd pee on the toilet as long as I was there (I'd come 2 hours into the school day). After a week of coming, her teacher saw her doing the "dance", and placed her screaming on the toilet. B"h she went, and ever since she seems to be cured. She now (two weeks later) goes on her own without a fuss.
Good luck

Chippies

Thu, Nov 24 2011, 10:46 am

Thanks for your suggestions, but I think if I go down to school to put him onto the toilet, then that'll just reinforce his behaviour because he wants me to come. I've already taken him to the toilet there many times (at the beginning and end of the day), and we make sure that the morah is in the bathroom with us. But he won't go without me there. Today I did a new bribe of a specific type of truck that he wants. He only gets it if he makes a #2 on the toilet at school. And if he makes a pee then he gets a candy when he comes home. He tried negotiating with me and wanted a new truck if he pees as well....but he accepted my final offer of a candy for pee and a truck for poo. We'll see how it goes.

de_goldy

Thu, Nov 24 2011, 12:22 pm

I would say stop with all the bribing and talking about it. I don't know how the morahs do bathrooms in your son's school but the way we do it - which helps kids like this - is that the morah takes all the kids for "bathroom time". We go in groups of five or so. No "do you need to go to the bathroom?" just, "now it's your turn to go to the bathroom". And all the kids try, even if they say they don't have to go. It's just part of the daily routine. (of course, if kids tell us at other times they need to go we take them!)

Chippies

Mon, Nov 28 2011, 12:05 pm

de_goldy wrote:

That's exactly what they do at my son's school as well - it just doesn't work for him. He'll be the only kid who refuses to go. He's a stubborn one.

5*Mom

Mon, Nov 28 2011, 5:12 pm

Chippies wrote:

Any advice? I'm going to try this punishment thing...but I doubt it'll work. He's generally a very high anxiety kid and hates change and trying new things, but this has been our biggest challenge yet.

You really do know why he won't go at school. You said it yourself. He needs help to make a slow and comfortable transition. All the bribing and punishing and tension only increases the anxiety and lowers his ability to be comfortable enough to make on a strange toilet, ie not his own home toilet. He needs your help and support, not judgments that he is not a big boy. Feeling bad about himself will not help him do better.

The solution that one of the above posters found for her child, going to school at intervals so her child could have the comfort and familiarity of her mom while she made the transition to using a foreign toilet, was great! This is not an easy solution for mom but a very worthwhile investment, both in the issue at hand and in your relationship. What you will be reenforcing for your child is the fact that mommy understands when something is difficult for him and you will be there to support and help him overcome his challenges without judgment or pressure. I'd ask him first if he thinks this would help him.

Chippies

Mon, Nov 28 2011, 7:01 pm

5*Mom wrote:

Chippies wrote:

Yes, obviously the fact that he has anxiety and fears is the reason that he doesn't want to make at school. But I know from the past, that any time I go in (and I actually did go in everyday for 2 weeks at camp) it only makes things worse. When he sees me at camp/school, he gets very excited to see me, will make on the toilet for me, and then screams for a long time when I leave without him. He gets very clingy. And he still won't make without me there. In fact, at camp, when I started going in everyday, it got to the point that as soon as he had to pee, he just asked for me to come and still refused to pee for anyone but me. So I don't really see how that would help now either.

Chippies

Tue, Nov 29 2011, 2:56 pm

5*Mom wrote:

It sounds like it may be time to consider professional intervention. A play therapist or SLP who works on social/emotional issues can give you both skills for helping him manage new situations and anxiety. It shouldn't be long-term unless his tendency toward anxiety is interfering with his functioning in many areas of his life. Good luck!

I have a feeling that most professionals would say to just wait it out because as I said, he's not even 3 yet and a lot of kids his age aren't toilet trained at all. Although he does have anxiety issues, he currently plays very well with everyone in his class and he's very appropriate socially. His morahs always praise how he is in class, with the exception of the toileting issue. So I wouldn't say that it's affecting many areas in his life. When I discussed his anxiety with our doctor a while ago, he said that my son is definitely high-anxiety, but within normal range and nothing to worry about - and that's likely just how he'll always be (for several reasons, including that it's in his genes!). So, he definitely doesn't have any real social or emotional issues B"H. We just have to figure out how to get him to make for people other than me.