I just had the worst day ever! All because of a new cleaning

Barbara

Fri, Feb 03 2012, 8:39 am

Sherri wrote:

Barbara wrote:

gold21 wrote:

what an absolute nightmare!! OMG!! that cleaning woman is a nutcase- she should have asked before using her own stuff in your kitchen- what is wrong with her?? you should deduct from her pay, because what she did totally violates the "cleaning lady code", which is that you always ask before doing something questionable- and using her own products is obviously questionable.

You are completely, totally, and 100% off base here.

Look, I feel really bad for OP. She's just had a baby, and having some problems. I wish her a refuah shleima and only the best. I'm not intending to criticize her at all.

But if you're not familiar with kashrut, the fact is that it sounds absolutely, totally bonkers that one would not be able to use one's own cleaning equipment in another person's kitchen, or that using perfectly good, and indeed excellent, cleaning equipment, to make sure that someone's kitchen is as clean as possible, is problematic.

Look at ads. Lots and lots of professional cleaning crews bring their own equipment. When we hire cleaners for Pesach, they show up with everything from mops and buckets to cleansers.

This cleaning person did nothing wrong. There was nothing questionable about what she did. She should be paid for her services.

But don't they have to ask? What if-- I don't know-- there's some allergy you have to some cleaning product?

No. Its on the person requesting services to say "I'll be providing all of my own equipment, please don't use your own."

black sheep

Fri, Feb 03 2012, 8:57 am

wow, that sounds like a very upsetting experience.

I use a cleaning crew, and they bring all their own equipment and cleaners. I always tell them not to wash any dishes (actually, I try to make sure dishes and pots and cutlery are all washed and put away before they come.) if you want a cleaning lady to wash dishes for you, you really have to be there the whole time (at the beginning.) I agree with the poster who said you are lucky to have caught her so early, I know people who found out after years with a cleaning lady of her treifing up the kitchen...

markmywords

Fri, Feb 03 2012, 8:57 am

What she did was totally odd and inappropriate for a woman who cleans. It is bizarre to say the least to bring sponges from ones own house (used ones?!? gross) and use them in someone else's house. No one I know would dream of doing such a thing. Yes, we keep kosher, so that may factor in, but can you imagine cleaning staff bringing their own toilet plungers or laundry detergent to use on hotel property?? Just plain strange. If she was hired through an agency, I would definitely call and discuss this. Maybe she meant well, but her ignorance and assumptions (which are not typical assumptions) cost you.
Time to get out the paper plates and utensils. Order in everything. It's time to get help (not the kind you got). Call a friend or two; a neighbor or relative who can help you. You have your hands full. You need to get specific about the kind of help you need and the time frame. If your older one will be starved within two hours, make that clear and ask them if they could just get something over to you by the next meal. Your neighbor probably left because she didn't know the pinch you were in (time wise). Maybe you can borrow a pot from a friend, just to cook eggs, pasta, etc, simple things?
Let the cleaning lady (new one) clean the rest of the house- change sheets, do laundry, clean the bathroom, floors... Even that would be a help.
I am so sorry for what you've been through. How aggravating.

abby1776

Fri, Feb 03 2012, 11:15 am

I am sorry you had to learn this the hard way. You can never assume any kind of hired help (even frum) knows how to do things they way you want them done, especially cleaning ladies and babysitters. You must be with them - no matter how uncomfortable it is - at least the very first time to make sure they are doing everything correctly. Otherwise, how do they know. You cannot leave them unsurpervised. We just started with a new cleaning lady who works for my neighbor, she is used to Kashrut, but there are certain things that are different in my house than in my neighbors. You cannot assume she knows how to do anything. The first two times she was compleely supervised. With the third visit, we were somewhat comfortable to let her clean - but we were still around in case she had any questions.

sarahd

Sat, Feb 04 2012, 11:49 am

Barbara wrote:

gold21 wrote:

You would be fine with me bringing my used sponges and scrubbing brushes to wash your dishes? It's one thing to bring your own professional equipment; quite another to bring used stuff from your home to someone else's house. And if the lady of the house shows you her cleaning supplies and indicates you should use it, it would certainly be appropriate to ask her if you can use your own personal things.

I think deducting pay would not be fair, but what the cleaner did was not normal.

Isramom8

Sat, Feb 04 2012, 1:51 pm

Absolutely annoying, OP. I went through a handful of once-a-week-half-day cleaners that were never invited back - they did bad stuff, but nothing this bad!

It takes mazel and training to have a good cleaner. Even now, when the same one has been with us for years, it's a trade off - clean house versus annoying. We kind of just compromise and deal with each other's quirks - but figuring it out took time and patience.

This is so not what you needed now. I hope things are back to normal soon.

Raizle

Sat, Feb 04 2012, 2:31 pm

OP, we had a major kashrus crisis in our kitchen too once and had to re-kasher and buy new stuff.
Don't worry, it will pass.

You know I've learnt on a few occasions that if you don't have a kashrus shaila in about 7 years I think, then you have to re-kasher your kitchen because it's a sign a person wasn't vigilant enough. Reason being it's impossible to never have shailos in the kitchen.
but no you don't have to have such major ones to pass the 7 year test. LOL

Raizle

Sat, Feb 04 2012, 2:50 pm

Ruchel wrote:

This is interesting, what type of shaila should everyone have about kashrus?

Everyone has a shaila at some point in time.
It's impossible to go 7 years without ever mixing up dishes or making some mistake. So if 7 years go by and one never had any questions in kashrus in their kitchen, you gotta wonder if they weren't paying attention or caring enough about kashrus.

Raizle

Sat, Feb 04 2012, 4:37 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

With kids, maybe. I don't think 7 WEEKS go by when some kid doesn't ask, "Tatty? Did I make this treif?" Maybe a wife knows if she did or didn't.

even an adult is capable of sticking the wrong dish in the wrong sink and not realizing till they are all washed in boiling hot water.

She may or may not know what to do with or without consulting a Rov.
I think it's still counted even if she already knew what to do. The point is that she realizes and does something about it rather then toss the dish back where it came from and do nothing about it.

If someone says they never in 7 years ever had a situation arise like that, I'd be worried they weren't paying enough attention.

shanie5

Sat, Feb 04 2012, 6:56 pm

sarahd wrote:

Barbara wrote:

gold21 wrote:

My sentiments exactly! Mops and brooms, even detergents are one thing. But using used sponges and scrubbers from s/o elses house-NO WAY!

Raizle

Sun, Feb 05 2012, 2:34 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

Maybe a wife knows if she did or didn't.

This. Or her husband will know the halacha, if she doesn't.

I don't think you understood what I meant.
It's fine if they know the answer on their own but that doesn't stop them from making a mistake by putting the wrong dish in the wrong sink or accidentally mixing things up.
That's what I meant by having a shaila in the kitchen. I don't think anyone can claim to not have done something in 7 years and if they do make that claim I'd be worried.