Shabbos with single friend was stressful- WWYD?

amother

Sun, Sep 02 2012, 2:56 am

Happy18 wrote:

Unless you explicitly told her you invited her to help you I dont think you can be upset about it.

I would feel very uncomfortable inviting someone for the purpose of helping. What kind of invitation is that?

But really, allowing me time to pay attention to the kids, "noticing " them yourself and offering to help with the salad are not "extras" I need to discuss in advance, are they?!

Peanut- lol. I'd feel uncomfortable ordering someone around in my house, I'd be cringing the whole time she was washing those dishes. Not worth it for me.

amother

Sun, Sep 02 2012, 4:58 am

I'm pretty sure I was like your Shabbos guest when I was single. embarrassed

I almost always slept in. Because it just never would have occurred to me to get up earlier. I was used to getting up late on Shabbos every week, it was my one chance all week to sleep in, and as long as I was up and dressed in time to chop a salad before the men came home from shul, what was the big deal? embarrassed

I looked forward to going to people for Shabbos so that we could talk. I always assumed they invited me over because they wanted the pleasure of my company. I was always waiting politely for them to finish with their children so they could resume the interesting conversation we'd been having (nearly always about my shidduchim or similar).

I remember once the lady I was staying by had to go to the mikvah (she told me), and when she came home, I started shmoozing with her in the living room until she finally said she was tired and went to her bedroom. I actually continued sitting in the living room (right next to her bedroom) reading a magazine for a while until I unfortunately heard her and her husband being intimate, at which point I scurried off to the guest room, belatedly realizing how rude I'd been.

The list goes on and on.

I really can't believe how insensitive and clueless I was. And I was in my mid-twenties, and was educated, and generally had common sense. But somehow I was just totally self-centered as a guest, but didn't realize it until I got married.

I in no way understood how much work goes into running a home, raising kids, making Shabbos. I always thought I was super helpful because I always did things like chopping a salad, reading a story to the kids, whatever. I didn't understand how thinly stretched parents can be. Yes I had stresses in my life but they were of a different sort from the ones I have now. I didn't understand how much parents need a helping hand. It just never occurred to me that parents might be physically and mentally exhausted. I thought that married people had a settled and happy life (unlike me, who was lonely and worrying about when I'd meet my bashert), and I loved being in their homes and soaking up the homey atmosphere. I was oblivious.

And my experience having been married many years now, is that many of our single guests, especially the men, have the same attitude. I don't mean everybody of course. But a lot. It's pretty normal.

daagahminayin

Sun, Sep 02 2012, 9:11 am

I remember how hard it was for me as a single girl at my married friends for Shabbos, to have every interaction with them interrupted by them needing to take care of their husband or kids. Of course I was patient and helped a lot, but it was frustrating. And no matter how bad I felt for them, that they were busy and overwhelmed, I still would have traded places with them in a second, to have a family like they did.

Please don't underestimate a single person's need for a conversation where you are focused on just them. Remember, they don't have a husband to do that for them.

BusyBeeMommy

Sun, Sep 02 2012, 9:31 am

Sometimes I get resentful of our single shabbos guests too. They can become demanding and I'm serving them hand and foot, trying to pay attention to what's going on in their lives with shidduchim and work, trying to juggle my kids at the same time, keep the house from becoming a wreck and keep the food coming, it can get overwhelming. Some take an interest in my kids but many do not and they're oblivious as to how much work I have in order to put shabbos together. Sometimes they keep me up late talking about this and that although I have a baby that will wake up in a few hours for a feeding and my kids will be up at the crack of dawn and I'd love to just get into bed. But I quickly remind myself that I'm lucky to be in my position of having a family, and although it's so tough they would trade with me in a second if they could. That puts things into perspective. I know it's not every single, many are happy with their careers and not as into having a family but I know that it's the ultimate fulfillment from life.

Sun, Sep 02 2012, 10:02 am

Give the friend a break.

From my perspective, "normal" guest behavior (among friends/peers, not elderly or otherwise honored guests) includes setting the table if needed and helping to clear and wash up after a meal. It might involve helping with last-minute food prep. Of course guests bring something along - a dessert or salad (go ahead and search for threads on whether or not guest should bring food...). Making up the guest room - maybe. Stripping the bed after - definitely.

A lot depends on the preference of the host. The way I was brought up, guests rooms are always ready and the food is prepared before the guests arrive. Some people like to have guests pitch in in the kitchen; others find it creates more work and wastes time, and would rather keep guests out of the kitchen. The guest might not know that the host's expectations are different from her own.

Child care? Close friends who know your kids well might be able to or be expected to help out with your kids. People who don't know your kids well should not be expected to help or entertain your children.

Friends at different stages of life might not "get" the other's current experience or priorities. Yes, the childless friend is coming to visit you. She will wait patiently while you attend to your kids. If she is not part of their day-to-day lives, she won't know how much time or attention they need. That isn't rude. Rude would be complaining about your kids taking too much time and attention.

When I was the single friend, or the young-married-without-kids, I did not particularly envy the lives of my friends who were a stage ahead of me. Don't make assumptions.

I lived on my own through college and after, and knew how to make Shabbat meals and was well aware of how much effort it took, while going to class or working full-time. Again, don't make assumptions. Cutting up a salad or bringing something for the table is helping. I'm not sure what some of the posters expect from their guests, or what they do when they go to other people's homes. Bring entire meals? I've done that - but only when it's part of the arrangements in advance. It isn't an unspoken expectation.

black sheep

Sun, Sep 02 2012, 2:23 pm

OP I totally get your frustration. your single friend could be my single friend. she is caring, compassionate, and good with kids, so I was really shocked when I had small children and she would come for shabbos and do NOTHING. she would sit on the couch, talking about her shidduchim or lack thereof, about her work, and about her traveling, while I struggled to hear her and keep up with the conversation over the kids. she sat at the table the entire meal while dh and I served and cleared. then she went to the couch, expecting me to join her and getting annoyed if I got busy with the kids, or if it took me too long to straighten the kitchen. I always just told myself that one day she will understand, but now, she is still single and still has no idea.

just some insight from her: she has told me that she doesn't go to certain friends, because in her words, she doesn't even understand why they invite her if they are so busy with their kids and husband that they have no time to spend with her. she won't go to friends who have "annoying" kids (her word) because then she gets no rest all shabbos. in other words, she really has no clue. in this regard, she is very self absorbed. how ironic that she wants to come to me, and hints that she wants to be invited, but I stopped inviting her for the whole shabbos long ago because it takes me a few days to recover. and I don't think I can say anything about it to her, because she is touchy about her situation, and I know she would take it very badly.

the funny thing is, I once invited her for a whole yom tov when I had a newborn (I gave birth a few days before shavuos.) I specifically told her that with a couple little kids and a newborn, I need someone to help me, and would she be willing to do it. so she took my other kids out during the day to the park, washed the dishes (didn't help set and serve but my SIL came over for meals and helped with that.) she was a real help that time. so I think she is capable, but it has to be that I specifically need her help, not just for general I might as well help since I'm here anyway kind of thing. and I think for her she really was going out of her way and decided she is doing that as a chesed rather than it being natural.

so I understand where she is coming from. she has a different life than me, and when I invite her she expects to sit, have coffee, and chat with her old friend. I bet she's telling her single friends how hard it is to come to me because I can't just sit and chat. but for myself, I cannot put myself into such a stressful situation. so for a shabbos meal, great. for a whole shabbos, too much. for now. maybe when the kids are grown up and I have time to sit and chat. but I hope by then she'll be busy with her own hectic house...

groovy1224

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 10:36 pm

The only thing I think you could really get upset about here is how she didn't help with serving, since that's kind of rude not to help with in any situation.
But unless you told her when you invited her that you just needed an extra pair of hands while DH was away, I think she's in the clear. Even though she really should have helped more, could it be that she thought you were inviting her for some girl bonding time while your DH was out? Maybe she was annoyed herself- and saying 'why did she even invite me if she doesn't have any time to talk to me? And if she thinks I'm going to wipe her kids' noses with her, she's wrong! I've made my choice to wait before I get married and have kids, and she made her choice. Let her deal with it.'
Not at all saying that that's nice or polite, when someone made and is hosting the whole weekend for you. A gracious guest (and friend) would pitch in with the kids, but I certainly don't think she was required.
She'll understand when the time comes for her. I say good for you for keeping your cool and trying to keep everyone happy and under control. And now you know who not to invite the next time DH is away Smile

SomebodyElse

Mon, Sep 03 2012, 11:34 pm

I think some people don't feel comfortable just jumping in. They may worry that they might be overstepping their bounds/interfering/getting in the way, or they just don't know what to do and how to do it (or how *you* like it done in your home) but would be happy to help if asked to do something specific. It sounds like her constant chattering was a sign of something more than that, but I definitely think it would have been acceptable to keep asking her to do things that you would normally expect/ask a guest to do.