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Forum
-> Parenting our children
-> Toddlers
imaima
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 Sat, Sep 08 2012, 1:09 pm
| imochka wrote: | I am the original poster... I am sitting reading the last replies and I feel like crying.
Sorry to say I broke down under pressure. Although after summer we barely have any money for anything, we did scrape up enough for two months of playgroup. 
Trying to advertise for kids his age to play with -- I was willing to offer several hours of babysitting FREE every day!! -- and trying to look for solutions where my DS will be able to get the "socialization skills" he needs, I found none. What can I tell you? Kids his age are in playgroup and when out of playgroup are they able to handle more play? Makes no sense. I would not even want to subject any playgroup tired out child to more play. Time to be home with mommy ... finally, no? I would not want to be unfair to that poor tired kid just because we desperately need a playmate!
Anyway, organizing it was too much of a big deal. Of course, if truth be told... I also have a work schedule that ... yes, I can do in the middle of the night or after an entire day... but I am not going to lie about how hard it is.
BUT... I made the playgroup decision because I was afraid!! I was so afraid that ....what if I am wrong... and c'v shalom he will grow up without being able to socialize in a normal way. I am spineless what can I say!
Anyway, he is now in playgroup. The best playgroup. The songs, the activities, the structure, the middos they instill... awesome. And, all I want to do is cry! Of course, I am not a preschool teacher. I may have missed some of these things. I do talk to him a lot, but no, I don't know all the songs... and I can't do half the art projects they do! So, I should feel glad that finally he is getting a proper preparation for adulthood, not guilt-ridden.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I had time today to make dinner in peace:), and to finish my work early. I had time to return calls, and time to daven. I could even join an exercise program now ... and sit down calmly to eat my breakfast or lunch... and maybe even read a book. I could think about life more and maybe become the tzadekes I want to be.
....
Today I wanted to pick up my child before lunch so he can have only a couple hours in playgroup, though I am paying for the entire day... But eating lunch with the kids is good for him right? So, I left him for lunch. Then It was reading/library time and I did not want him to miss that... so I left him for another half hour. Then they were singing and jumping and I did not want to interrupt so I waited outside the door... then I did finally pick him up ... but he started to cry and said he wanted to stay more. He was the only one being picked up that "early" .... mind you from 9 am ... and it was 2... he was crying with tears. I had to distract him and leave. (btw... many mothers there don't work it seems)
Ok, so we made it home close to 3... it was too late for a nap. Well, my child was so exhausted that he was not functioning normally. he seemed like a drunk. he was playing but weird and then he was just lying on the floor. . I did not know what to do but did not want to change his schedule. He goes to sleep at 7 30.
I tried playing with him or doing our regular things around the house, but he was not himself. Honestly, he was not listening and was out of it. He was irritating me to be truthful. After a little of this, I decided that the day was pretty much shot and we should go to the playground until it was time for supper. My DS played ok at the playground, but he cried a couple of time over nothing -- atypical for him. There were a few hugs and kisses during the evening but I felt that I really haven't spent any quality time with him today at all. it was reminiscent when he went to camp...and then I picked him up always at 12 or 12 30.
The morning time is the best for giving over to my son something that he will have to hold on to if times get tough.
But... I am scared. Keeping him at home completely is not an option I think.he wants to have friends. He asks for them and should have them. But the day at the playgroup that is FILLED up with lots of fun activities is until 3. Now...I know this. I was never told explicitely that the playgroup is not set up for early pick ups... at least it seemed so to me. To pick him up in the middle of the day may be disruptive for him.
At least for now, he is an only child. We have no family in New York and even if we did, they are not frum. But... in my heart although I feel that he is learning, I wonder why he has to learn this now.
Btw... the morah told me that he was a delight. Believe me she was surprised...
All your responses I have read and reread. Some of them give me great chizuk... you can't even imagine.
Any ideas would be so welcome.
My husband feels that we should do like everyone else. to a certain extent I agree... but this feels wrong. I basically have no daily quality time with my precious child (which is mornings until even ... like 2 and then he typically runs around at the playground)  After playgroup, he is done, it is just a countdown to bedtime!
I am sorry to sound like so weak. Believe me, I am very bold, when it comes to me. I am just afraid to make a mistake with my child. I am not so bold when it comes to him.  |
At the very least, if he doesn't nap, you can put him to sleep at 7 and even 6.30, if he is really exhausted. he is not gaining anything from the "mommy time" being overtired.
And, if you are BTs and have not been raised in a frum setting and hadn't received a formal frum education, I think it is good to send your child to a proper school.
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abound
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Sat, Sep 08 2012, 2:30 pm
I think you need to make a decision. The truth is it seems you made the decision to send him to playgroup but you are not comfortable with the decision.
He tasted the fun and excitment of a playgroup- it is more stimulating then what you can do on most days. To decide to pull him out of playgroup now, will be hard on him but it is doable.
YOu cannot keep picking him up early just when they are having fun. It is unfair to him and messes up his routine. Especially if it is not a daily thing. (You come every day the same time, (before lunch etc, and pick him up. He has breifcase and knows he is going home) THe problem is worse when you come and you waiver between letting him stay because something nice is going on or taking him home- it is very unsettling to your child.
So decide and stick to the decision- HAPPILY!
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ProudMommie
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Sat, Sep 08 2012, 6:01 pm
Abound,
You are right, and that is why I want to make a decision about time and stick to it. I know that it is unsettling. It is not about the fun I can or can not provide. It is about interaction with kids that he loves, which I DO want him to have. The question is not about should he have time with other kids, but how much of it does he really need? Would he benefit more from being at home MOST of the time, and I don't mean actually physicall home, but with ME?
Last edited by ProudMommie on Sun, Sep 09 2012, 4:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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MaBelleVie
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Sat, Sep 08 2012, 7:21 pm
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What makes you think imaima isn't a BT herself?
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imaima
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Sun, Sep 09 2012, 12:09 pm
| MaBelleVie wrote: | | What makes you think imaima isn't a BT herself? |
Well, exactly, I am a BT and I think my background is similar to OP's, except when my oldest was 3 and a half, I had a second one and was pregnant with the third one, so staying home with kids was not doable for me.
You are right that there is no one else who can teach your kids emuna, bitachon and appreciation of yiddishkeit. Those are not things they teach in school anyway. I specifically said, formal education.
Do you know what to teach beyond Tora tziva lanu, shma and alef beis? DO you know what comes first, what comes next? Has your dh been in cheder himself? WHo is going to teach those things to your child? You say that there are tapes, books and so on. But then you admit that in the playgroup they have songs that you don't know and your son wouldn't have learned them otherwise. So how come you were not able to buy the same types they use in the gan? Truth is, in order to do it you need to know what to do. And you don't.
You don't seem to have a plan. two pages ago you said you were not sending to the playgroup because it had no structure. Now you don't know why your son needs structure at that age. You send him with a heavy heart and I think it is the worst for your child, because he can sense your inconfidence. You need to know what you are doing and not just do whatever until you see it's not working.
All the while you've been doing the right thing keeping him home, but over 3 is the age when they start to socialize. Ideally people didn't need a school for that - they had a family. Do you have a family that can be enough of a social stimulation for your child? Cousins, nieces, aunts, grandmas? All frum so they can support and reinforce all the ideas that you give him? Why not just send to the playgroup?
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bamamama
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Sun, Sep 09 2012, 12:33 pm
| imaima wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | | What makes you think imaima isn't a BT herself? |
Well, exactly, I am a BT and I think my background is similar to OP's, except when my oldest was 3 and a half, I had a second one and was pregnant with the third one, so staying home with kids was not doable for me.
You are right that there is no one else who can teach your kids emuna, bitachon and appreciation of yiddishkeit. Those are not things they teach in school anyway. I specifically said, formal education.
Do you know what to teach beyond Tora tziva lanu, shma and alef beis? DO you know what comes first, what comes next? Has your dh been in cheder himself? WHo is going to teach those things to your child? You say that there are tapes, books and so on. But then you admit that in the playgroup they have songs that you don't know and your son wouldn't have learned them otherwise. So how come you were not able to buy the same types they use in the gan? Truth is, in order to do it you need to know what to do. And you don't.
You don't seem to have a plan. two pages ago you said you were not sending to the playgroup because it had no structure. Now you don't know why your son needs structure at that age. You send him with a heavy heart and I think it is the worst for your child, because he can sense your inconfidence. You need to know what you are doing and not just do whatever until you see it's not working.
All the while you've been doing the right thing keeping him home, but over 3 is the age when they start to socialize. Ideally people didn't need a school for that - they had a family. Do you have a family that can be enough of a social stimulation for your child? Cousins, nieces, aunts, grandmas? All frum so they can support and reinforce all the ideas that you give him? Why not just send to the playgroup? |
Ok, it's ridiculous to suggest that family needs to be frum to be a valuable educational resource to your children. And, I realize this is a bit beyond the scope of OP's post, but as far as BTs not being able to homeschool - that's just not true. We are BTs and homeschool. I know LOTS of BTs who homeschool. There's plenty of information out there these days on what to teach and when. For the older grades, there are tutors and plenty of opportunity for the parents to extend their own education.
But, you're right. If you're trying for indoctrination (as opposed to critical thinking skills, tolerance, respect for all people), then, yes, it's better to send to school as soon as possible.
And, OP, you mentioned not wanting to attend secular classes with your son because, at 3, he already "knows about tznius". Ok. I guess you have to decide again - indoctrination or education. We teach respect for people no matter how they dress. I hardly believe that if the preschool music teach wears a low-cut blouse one day, your son is going to be confused. And if he is, you say "People are free to dress as they see fit. Wasn't the art project fun today? Mrs. Smith is such a great teacher. She plans such fun activities for you guys!"
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imaima
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Sun, Sep 09 2012, 12:47 pm
| bamamama wrote: | | imaima wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | | What makes you think imaima isn't a BT herself? |
Well, exactly, I am a BT and I think my background is similar to OP's, except when my oldest was 3 and a half, I had a second one and was pregnant with the third one, so staying home with kids was not doable for me.
You are right that there is no one else who can teach your kids emuna, bitachon and appreciation of yiddishkeit. Those are not things they teach in school anyway. I specifically said, formal education.
Do you know what to teach beyond Tora tziva lanu, shma and alef beis? DO you know what comes first, what comes next? Has your dh been in cheder himself? WHo is going to teach those things to your child? You say that there are tapes, books and so on. But then you admit that in the playgroup they have songs that you don't know and your son wouldn't have learned them otherwise. So how come you were not able to buy the same types they use in the gan? Truth is, in order to do it you need to know what to do. And you don't.
You don't seem to have a plan. two pages ago you said you were not sending to the playgroup because it had no structure. Now you don't know why your son needs structure at that age. You send him with a heavy heart and I think it is the worst for your child, because he can sense your inconfidence. You need to know what you are doing and not just do whatever until you see it's not working.
All the while you've been doing the right thing keeping him home, but over 3 is the age when they start to socialize. Ideally people didn't need a school for that - they had a family. Do you have a family that can be enough of a social stimulation for your child? Cousins, nieces, aunts, grandmas? All frum so they can support and reinforce all the ideas that you give him? Why not just send to the playgroup? |
Ok, it's ridiculous to suggest that family needs to be frum to be a valuable educational resource to your children. And, I realize this is a bit beyond the scope of OP's post, but as far as BTs not being able to homeschool - that's just not true. We are BTs and homeschool. I know LOTS of BTs who homeschool. There's plenty of information out there these days on what to teach and when. For the older grades, there are tutors and plenty of opportunity for the parents to extend their own education.
But, you're right. If you're trying for indoctrination (as opposed to critical thinking skills, tolerance, respect for all people), then, yes, it's better to send to school as soon as possible.
And, OP, you mentioned not wanting to attend secular classes with your son because, at 3, he already "knows about tznius". Ok. I guess you have to decide again - indoctrination or education. We teach respect for people no matter how they dress. I hardly believe that if the preschool music teach wears a low-cut blouse one day, your son is going to be confused. And if he is, you say "People are free to dress as they see fit. Wasn't the art project fun today? Mrs. Smith is such a great teacher. She plans such fun activities for you guys!" |
Do you actively teach tolerance? Respect for people? I always thought you teach it by example, and sending to school won't interfere with it.
I was talking about religious studies only. It doesn't have anything to do with teaching middos.
Op mentioned herself that she doesn't want her child to see all the secular things out there, so how can she have him learn from non-frum family?
There are plenty of resources but OP doesn't seem to be using them. SHe seems to be really confused. First thing she needs to make up her mind because if she doesn't her child will feel insecure in any setting she is giving him.
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bamamama
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Sun, Sep 09 2012, 9:40 pm
| imaima wrote: | | bamamama wrote: | | imaima wrote: | | MaBelleVie wrote: | | What makes you think imaima isn't a BT herself? |
Well, exactly, I am a BT and I think my background is similar to OP's, except when my oldest was 3 and a half, I had a second one and was pregnant with the third one, so staying home with kids was not doable for me.
You are right that there is no one else who can teach your kids emuna, bitachon and appreciation of yiddishkeit. Those are not things they teach in school anyway. I specifically said, formal education.
Do you know what to teach beyond Tora tziva lanu, shma and alef beis? DO you know what comes first, what comes next? Has your dh been in cheder himself? WHo is going to teach those things to your child? You say that there are tapes, books and so on. But then you admit that in the playgroup they have songs that you don't know and your son wouldn't have learned them otherwise. So how come you were not able to buy the same types they use in the gan? Truth is, in order to do it you need to know what to do. And you don't.
You don't seem to have a plan. two pages ago you said you were not sending to the playgroup because it had no structure. Now you don't know why your son needs structure at that age. You send him with a heavy heart and I think it is the worst for your child, because he can sense your inconfidence. You need to know what you are doing and not just do whatever until you see it's not working.
All the while you've been doing the right thing keeping him home, but over 3 is the age when they start to socialize. Ideally people didn't need a school for that - they had a family. Do you have a family that can be enough of a social stimulation for your child? Cousins, nieces, aunts, grandmas? All frum so they can support and reinforce all the ideas that you give him? Why not just send to the playgroup? |
Ok, it's ridiculous to suggest that family needs to be frum to be a valuable educational resource to your children. And, I realize this is a bit beyond the scope of OP's post, but as far as BTs not being able to homeschool - that's just not true. We are BTs and homeschool. I know LOTS of BTs who homeschool. There's plenty of information out there these days on what to teach and when. For the older grades, there are tutors and plenty of opportunity for the parents to extend their own education.
But, you're right. If you're trying for indoctrination (as opposed to critical thinking skills, tolerance, respect for all people), then, yes, it's better to send to school as soon as possible.
And, OP, you mentioned not wanting to attend secular classes with your son because, at 3, he already "knows about tznius". Ok. I guess you have to decide again - indoctrination or education. We teach respect for people no matter how they dress. I hardly believe that if the preschool music teach wears a low-cut blouse one day, your son is going to be confused. And if he is, you say "People are free to dress as they see fit. Wasn't the art project fun today? Mrs. Smith is such a great teacher. She plans such fun activities for you guys!" |
Do you actively teach tolerance? Respect for people? I always thought you teach it by example, and sending to school won't interfere with it.
I was talking about religious studies only. It doesn't have anything to do with teaching middos.
Op mentioned herself that she doesn't want her child to see all the secular things out there, so how can she have him learn from non-frum family?
There are plenty of resources but OP doesn't seem to be using them. SHe seems to be really confused. First thing she needs to make up her mind because if she doesn't her child will feel insecure in any setting she is giving him. |
Yes, I actually do consciously teach tolerance. We are fortunate to live in a very diverse city so I have lots of opportunity to talk to my kids about how people are the same and how they are different and how it'sour job to treat everyone respectfully. OP seems against teaching tolerance since she seems to want only a specific type of person to influence her child and she doesn't want to have to explain behaviour outside this paradigm. This type of thinking really, really bothers me.
And I agree with the second bolded bit. OP needs to decide.
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