Do you call yourself Mrs?

Fox

Mon, Sep 30 2013, 2:37 pm

Barbara wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

amother wrote:

Ugh, no! But I'm definitely not the best example and perhaps unique (on this site) in that I'm NOT a Mrs: I didn't take my husband's last name, so if anything, I'm Ms. X, same as before I got married. (Though as you can imagine, many people do address me as Mrs. Y. While I don't correct them, I so grrrrr a bit inside)

But this would make you MRS Maidenname, then.

Where is Fox when I need her????

AIUI, it means "wife of ..." "Mrs." was originally used only with the MAN'S name, except for divorced women. So, you would be Ruchel Hubbylastname, or Mrs. Hubbyfirstname Hubbylastname, but never Mrs. Ruchel Hubbylastname, and never ever Mrs. Ruchel Youroriginallast name.

[Sounds of horses' hooves as Fox rides in, brandishing her troves of ridiculous trivia]

Yup. Barbara is 100 percent correct.

However, to be fair, Ruchel isn't a good example because the rules are completely different in France, where, if I understand correctly, your title has a lot more to do with your perceived age than your marital status. "Madame" is a woman of "d'un certain age" regardless of marital status, while "Mademoiselle" is a young woman who is presumably not married but theoretically might be.

However, there is an even less commonly-known etiquette rule lurking in the OP's situation: you are not supposed to give yourself a title. This is true for common titles as well as royal or aristocratic titles. Other people call you be your title, but you don't call yourself by your title.

Therefore, when I call my doctor for an appointment, I say, "This is Chana Fox," and I expect the receptionist to say, "Oh, hi, Mrs. Fox." This doesn't have anything to do with our inherent stations in life, but simply roles we happen to be playing in that situation. Likewise, if the receptionist calls me for computer assistance, she might say, "Hi, this is Candy Braveheart from ABC Medical," and I would respond, "Oh, hi, Ms. Braveheart."

In a more extreme (though more entertaining) example, British aristocrats generally identify themselves by the name of their title only. If you happen to be calling Prince Charles on his mobile phone to give him a mazel tov on his einekel, he'll answer, "Wales here."

As a result, the name one uses to introduce oneself might change as everyone moves up in the pecking order. Charles Spencer, the 9th Earl Spencer (and brother to the late Princess Diana), was Viscount Althorp (pronounced AWL-trupp) before the death of his father. When he arrived to begin a new job in New York, his name was listed as "Al Thorp" on all his paperwork. Now, having inherited the earldom from his father, he would sign his correspondence and answer his phone as "Spencer".

In the more prosaic worlds inhabited by the rest of us, this rule is bent a little. My doctor, returning my call, might say, "This is Dr. Smith" simply to save time by providing more context and information. Likewise, I might call myself "Mrs. Fox" if I were calling one of my students -- particularly one who might think that the fact that I used my first name was somehow an invitation for her to do so.

As for why the woman in the OP's story is so resolute about avoiding the use of her first name, the possibilities are limitless. It could be a one-upsmanship issue, as others have suggested. It could be that she's just trying to strike a blow against what she perceives as excessive informality. She might have adopted some unusual chumra of tznius regarding her name (I recently had a woman refuse to enter a free raffle at an all-women's event because she was afraid she might win, and she would find it untznius to have her name announced aloud -- news to me, but it takes all kinds!).

But given her seeming interest in the OP's first name, my guess is that she's just a bit dotty on this particular subject.

sequoia

Mon, Sep 30 2013, 3:16 pm

In Elizabeth Gaskell's lovely, sweetly and ironically nostalgic "My Lady Ludlow," the main character refers to her SON exclusively by his title, Monkshaven. She never once mentions his name.

DrMom

Mon, Sep 30 2013, 3:31 pm

Fox wrote:

I recently had a woman refuse to enter a free raffle at an all-women's event because she was afraid she might win, and she would find it untznius to have her name announced aloud -- news to me, but it takes all kinds!

Say what?

amother

Mon, Sep 30 2013, 3:32 pm

sarahd wrote:

amother wrote:

OP, do you work for a rabbi or a mikvah?
Could there be a reason why people prefer to remain private or semi anonymous?

I was just going to post that it sounds like you work for a by-appointment mikveh. Do you?

OP here. I *might* be one of those two things. I might also be a saleslady in an intimate apparel shop. I might work as a sheitel macher. But true, it is more likely that I am a rabbis assistant or a ML.

Still, I think Barbra might have gotten it right that the women who are "Mrs", esp those who are younger than me, I think they just want to remind me that I am a lower place then they are.

Lets say I am a ML. There are many women who ask for the baalanit, the rabbanit, the rebbitzen... many people would look UP to a ML. Many people feel the ML is a holy woman. Do you call your rebbitzen and tell her I am "mrs" soandso? So why the need to be so formal? Why the need to be so private? I need to know who you are to make a time for you. And yes, there are many Mrs. Goldbergs who might call. Its a number of Mrs who do this. And MANY of them ask specifically what my FIRST name is.

Lets say Im a rabbis assistant. It hapens to be that I prefer my first name. I dont like my MIL (true in either case). Still the need to put me in my place due to my lower education?

Sometimes it just makes me feel low and bad. Thats all.

enneamom

Mon, Sep 30 2013, 3:41 pm

If you work for a Rabbi or a Mikvah, it's probably just a privacy issue. I understand why one would prefer to be anonymous for those things.

frosting

Mon, Sep 30 2013, 4:17 pm

wow, keep your socks on woman. a lady who needs to be "MRS" clearly has a confidence issue. "MRS" makes her feel all grown up and important. Don't worry. Remember that the REAL grown ups are those who are confident enough with who they are and don't need to resort to pettiness to try and get respect.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Sep 30 2013, 6:03 pm

Fox, that was a wonderful, funny, and VERY interesting post! I love your trivia. Very Happy

It's all generational, cultural, and subject to perspective.

It sound to me like a lot of posters here are making this out to be a VERY personal issue, when chances are it is just different points of view and not a value judgement at all.

Chillpills for everybody!

amother

Mon, Sep 30 2013, 6:18 pm

DrMom wrote:

Fox wrote:

Say what?

DLKZ I did the very same thing. So what if it was because it was Chippendales. Cool

Miri1

Mon, Sep 30 2013, 7:31 pm

I think she's a younger woman who's iffy about her first name because she's going over the top with the secrecy thing.

Someone once told me that the mikvah lady asked her what her name was, and she told her "I'd rather not say". She thought she was just being discreet about mikvah, I thought it sounded ridiculous, and rude.

In answer to your question, I don't call myself Mrs., but if I'm signing off something formal I would write my first and last name. I am usually casual in my interactions with female colleagues, but would introduce myself and sign off formally for a male colleague (first name, last name).

shanie5

Mon, Sep 30 2013, 11:46 pm

As a ML, I have had people refuse to give me their first name, give me a false name, or only first name, no last name. I take these as their level of privacy and dont take it personally. However, I dont think any of them ever asked me my name and refused to give theirs.

doctorima

Tue, Oct 01 2013, 12:56 am

I always feel uncomfortable when people call me Mrs. and whenever possible, I "correct" them and let them know that I prefer to be called by my first name.

DrMom

Tue, Oct 01 2013, 1:26 am

If it's a privacy issues, wouldn't she give you her *first* name and not her surname?

Why doesn't she just give you a false name?

freidasima

Tue, Oct 01 2013, 2:03 am

When I lived in America and my high school principal called us all Miss X I hated it. My Israeli girlfriends in high school said that they also preferred it here in EY where they just called you by your last name in school in those days without the Miss or Mr. which no one uses here.

I have a title, but it's only used at big professional meetings. I also have lots of names. Everyone under the sun calls me by my first name or rather a diminutive of it, even the top brass, but that's not uncommon in a country that everyone calls the prime minister by a diminutive of his first name as well.

On the other hand, my dh is big on formality and using titles. Rov is Rov, Dr. is Dr., and Mr. is Mr. etc. His GP who is an Israeli hospital doctor and Israeli born always calls everyone Mr. or Mrs. which is rare here. I remember flipping out when my father a"h was hospitalized in his 80s and the little nurse trainees who were maybe 20 would call him by his first name, but he took it in stride. Guess it depends on the person.

Op, it's strange what you describe, but take it in stride. Some people are just strange!

Ruchel

Tue, Oct 01 2013, 6:53 am

The old school French single maids will correct you to Mademoiselle (miss) if you say Mme Wink

Miri1

Tue, Oct 01 2013, 10:15 am

shanie5 wrote:

It sounds like these were two different interactions. The young woman gave her name as Mrs. in one context, but then asked her first name in a work context. Still a little odd sounding, but not as odd as if it had all happened in the same conversation.