What's "in" for BM boys these days?

mommy24

Thu, Feb 06 2014, 3:15 pm

Quote:

amother wrote:
Is it normal to get a feather on a hat? If so, weekday only, or Shabbos as well?

What about davening jackets? Gold buttons, yay or nay?

Tia!

What is a "davening jacket"? Embarassed

Thanks.

A daavening jacket is a regular sports jacket/blazer/suit jacket boys/men wear for daavening and (at least my husband and boys) when going out. Nothing specail to it, we got a regular black sports jacket.

My son knows a few boys that got hats with feather, I don't know if it was for weakday hat or shabbos or both. Honestly, we thought it was odd and didn't even think of asking abt it.

As far as buttons go, pretty sure gold buttons are not in, or at least when we go to the stores, I see very few and they don't seem to be selling too quickly.

Barbara

Thu, Feb 06 2014, 6:32 pm

ABC wrote:

this all sounds like a lot of gashmiyus to me, sorry.

Why?

When I googled "davening jacket," I learned that many people think its a sign of kavod to wear a jacket or blazer while davening. Sort of like wearing nice clothes on Shabbat. Clearly not the thing in my community, but I fail to understand what is troubling about that.

As to wanting to get a jacket that's in style -- why not? First of all, people are talking about teens here. Teens want to fit in. Second, doesn't everyone want to look nice? I assume that if went to buy a dress, and the clerk handed you one that had shoulder pads the likes of which we haven't seen since Dynasty, or that looked like it came from the Summer of Love, you'd try to find a more modern, attractive dress. Why shouldn't a boy feel the same way about a jacket or hat that he will wear every day? Its not like he's demanding bespoke apparel.

BlueRose52

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 7:23 am

ABC wrote:

this all sounds like a lot of gashmiyus to me, sorry.

I totally agree. Not that I think that there's really anything so bad about indulging in some gashmiyus every so often. In fact, I personally feel that everyone is entitled to dress in a way that makes them feel good about how they look.

But there are certain practices, and whether or not to have a feather in your hat, or the type of yarmulka one wears (6 wedges vs 4, etc.), would seem to me to be among those, where the concern for the look is made more out of a concern to be "fitting in" than to be looking good. And seeing that superficiality in the context of behaviors which are meant to be spiritual seems grossly hypocritical to me.

mommyhood

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 10:50 am

BlueRose52 wrote:

I disagree. We women spend a lot of time and money making sure our hair coverings look good. We're covering our hair for the mitzvah but we're allowed, even encouraged, to make ourselves feel good about it.
Why should we deny our boys the opportunity to feel good about themselves. When I make my first bar mitzvah I will definitely be asking around to find what what kind of hat and jacket are the norm. I don't plan on obsessing over the decision but there are big purchases might as well buy something that the boy is going to like rather than just buy whatever you want and have the boy feel like he doens't fit in.

BlueRose52

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 11:06 am

I'm totally behind the idea that we should allow kids and teens to dress in a way that they fit in comfortably and feel good about how they appear. That's not what I'm against. What I'm describing is more akin to how some people will obsess about having a designer label on their purse or clothes. It's not so much an issue of feeling good about how you look (after all, the fake knock-off often looks as good as the genuine article), but more about feeling special about having the right fashion status symbols. In the frum world there are also fashion status symbols, and I think that indulging in that pursuit is diametrically opposed to what being a spiritual person is supposed to be about.

Here's the difference: if it's socially unacceptable to have a feather in a hat, then I'd agree that one should allow their son to choose a hat that doesn't have it, because he'd feel funny having that. But if it's the opposite, where he prefers to have the feather in the hat, then I would say that is what shouldn't be encouraged, because one looks perfectly fine in a hat without a feather; the feather is merely a statement that you're "cool", or "with it" (or whatever the right expression is that the kids are using these days). It's a status symbol, and status symbols are the very worst sign of superficiality. And superficiality in the context of spirituality is the worst kind of all.

Of course, I'll admit, in the grand scheme of things, these issues are not really a big deal. But to me, they indicate a fundamental lack of appreciation for what the activity is about, and that's something to be concerned about. Wearing a kipa, or a hat to daven in, is supposed to spur one to reflect on one's relationship to G-d. If it instead is used to make oneself feel that they're part of the cool crowd, something is quite wrong.

MaBelleVie

Fri, Feb 07 2014, 12:53 pm

BlueRose52 wrote:

I just want to comment on the last part. In yeshivish communities, the penguin look is pretty much the standard. Rabbanim will say that the idea is to look dignified and respectable because we are representing the Torah and Judaism. The thing is, walking around in shlumpy clothing/outdated styles/scuffed black shoes is not going to garner respect from anyone (besides maybe other yeshivish types). Why don't they place more emphasis on actually looking put together and reasonably stylish? A talmid chacham who goes out with a stain on his clothing is chayav misa. Clearly, your image is important when you are the rep. I think this applies to image in general, and I wish people would care to notice that.