Putting daughter in Public school b/c can't afford tuition

Barbara

Sun, Jul 06 2014, 8:46 pm

amother wrote:

My daughter will be going to Public school in September b/c we can't afford the yeshivah tuition. She is going into 2nd grade and I'm not sure how to tell her this. Any ideas?

I'm also looking for ways to supplement her limudei kodesh subjects. If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them. I will probably hire one of the 2nd grade teachers to work with her a couple of times a week. If anyone is in this situation, I'd love to hear how you have navigated through this. Thanks so much!

Make it sound like an adventure. She'll get to learn exciting new things and make new friends.

Your bigger problem is down the line. You mention that you have other kids you are leaving in Jewish schools. Why? Why did you choose them, not her? You're going to have to explain that, sooner or later.

amother

Sun, Jul 06 2014, 9:29 pm

I'm choosing this for my daughter BC she is my youngest. She is at an age where I feel like I can handle much of the limudei kodesh teaching especially if I work with a teacher who can teach her at home a few times a week. Once things become more in depth I may have a harder time relying on my own knowledge. My hope is to eventually put her back in yeshivah- somehow. She is b"h a smart and social child and likely to hopefully have a smooth transition. My oldest needs to stay where he is. He is in a school that we are extremely happy with. If we moved my middle child he would have major social issues to deal with as well as a ton of issues with the non religious aspect of public school. It just seems to make the most sense. Im trying very hard to feel OK with this decision but I mostly feel nervous...

amother

Sun, Jul 06 2014, 9:38 pm

amother wrote:

My mom educated me in a public school and my siblings in yeshivah. I was the youngest girl in the family although I was not the youngest. It was felt the resources should go to the boys. I regret that I can't give my children a public school education in secular subjects.

I was the only shabbos observant and kosher kid in my elementary school. In high school, I met other shabbos observant and kosher kids. My mom made me feel special because the other kids had a longer day and she could spend more time with me. She told me that she didn't want me to leave her for so long. I did go to Hebrew school three times a week. I am not as knowledgeable as my siblings, but it is OK because I have a wonderful DH.

rachelbg

Sun, Jul 06 2014, 9:48 pm

I'd suggest that you encourage your daughter to attend weekly bnos groups, or Friday night girl's tehilim groups, shul youth groups, or really any other extra-curricular activity that will surround her with her yeshiva-educated friends. This would hopefully maintain her frum social life, and remind her of who she is. I know it may be too expensive, but I'd also recommend that you make sure to send her to a great summer camp to help make up for the loss of yiddishkeit surrounding her daily during the year. So much informal education happens during the summers, it's incredible.

Capitalchick

Sun, Jul 06 2014, 9:52 pm

Let me reassure you that she will be OK! You will certainly come to find some advantages to public school, such as the excellent secular education she will receive. And you're right; she is young, and you still have plenty of influence on her thinking, her friends, etc.

I guess my recommendations to you would be as follows:

1) If you seem upset or worried when you tell her, she'll definitely sense that, so you should do your best to be matter of fact and very optimistic about it.

2) Forge a good relationship with the teacher from day #1. Explain your circumstances and lifestyle to the teacher and enlist her help in integrating your child into the classroom well.

3) Encourage your child's new friendships (non-Jewish kids, too!). It goes without saying that there are some wonderful kids and families who aren't jewish and who attend public school. Hopefully your daughter will make friends with wonderful people, and you should encourage her to deepen these friendships. Invite children over to your home on Shabbat or Sunday, so that they can see that you're really nice and normal and not so different from them.

4) If you see that your child is adopting behaviours that you're not too happy with, be gentle with her and correct them gently. Tell her that she knows how you expect her to act, and that certain things aren't proper for a frum girl. And, most importantly, try and do it in a way that isn't making it seem like you think that non-Jews are bad people.

5) Know...Really believe that things will be ok. This is far from the worst thing in the world. She'll do very well, and so will you.

6) Be proud that you're making a financially responsible step. It's the right thing to do and you will be ok!

All the best!

Last edited by Capitalchick on Sun, Jul 06 2014, 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

SRS

Sun, Jul 06 2014, 10:08 pm

Ashrei wrote:

SRS, your post was so confusing but interesting at the same time. You seem to know a lot about this and 1. I'm genuinely interested to learn how the Jewish schools have worked themselves into a place where the asking price is so high.
2. What is the path of putting more and moreof the bill on fewer and fewer people?
3. When you say "Those parents are gone," you mean most parents are paying nothing at all?

Maybe you can PM me or we can start another thread. As a family who often feels 'squeezed,' I'd like to learn more about this, and also how a school can avoid falling into this trap...

I don't want to derail this thread, so you are welcome to start another one. But it is really quite simple. Budgets have to be met and the default way of meeting them is raise tuition and rely on those who are paying to pay even more. And, it works to a certain extent, but has its limitations.

If the full payers can't foot the increase, the next tier will need to foot the increase. The very rich are mostly of our imagination. I think a lot of the increases are being absorbed by families with good salaries, frugal tastes, and less children. Those who are already on scholarship are not realistically expected to pay more. So basically someone needs to pay and someone will be squeezed.

Many administrators hope donors will step up to the plate, but there are few donors who are interested in footing more of the bill and the economy has been in a slump anyways. Jewish schools lack a large donor base as it is and most families are either future payers, current payers, or recovering payers. There is very little customer base from outside of the community like families that are traditional in outlook that desire a strong Jewish education for their children and are willing to foot a 15K bill for it. And schools are not particularly welcoming to non-Orthodox kids because parents fear the negative influence. Half of the reason parents are paying for a Jewish education is to keep them in a closed environment. Half of the reason there are so many schools fighting for so few resources is that we don't even want the influences from other shomer shabbos kids.

So basically the same thing keeps happening which is increasing tuition and then figuring out who will be awarded with the scholarship funds which is basically donor funds plus the funds are parents who are paying more than the average cost of the fixed price education. In this case, the amother was awarded something, but it wasn't enough. So she had to find a solution for her family and is wondering what of this unwritten contract of education despite finances.

Last edited by SRS on Sun, Jul 06 2014, 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Sun, Jul 06 2014, 10:09 pm

Have you registered yet for public school, so you know which one she is going to? It might be helpful to find out if you can talk with the public school 2nd grade teacher your daughter will be assigned to about your concerns and issues. I register my son, as a back up, with a local charter public school. Our tuition went up several hundred $ more a month, my husband just got a job paycut and I'm currently out on short term disability due to a car accident with lots of medical bills, so our finances are much tighter right now. If we're not able to work out finances with the dayschool for this yr, then at least I'm okay (not thrilled) about the public school. I spoke for quite a while with the public school teacher a few days ago on the phone and she sounded amazing. Really listened to my concerns, issues and if my son did end up going there I think he would get a great secular education next yr. We'd just have to figure out separately how to supplement the Judaic stuff.

Kugglegirl

Sun, Jul 06 2014, 11:42 pm

I have socially 'normal' children who are in public schools due to special learning needs.

It is important to keep up your child's relationship with the other children in your Torah community. Let her friends parents know what you are doing, and that you want to make sure to keep up play dates & that they should continue to include your DD in birthday parties & other group events.

If there are groups she can go to like b'nos or b'nai akiva, its also good.

Even though my children are not in day school, we still invest a lot in their Jewish education. Between tutoring, and paying for Jewish summer camp, we spend many thousands per year. A bit less than day school would cost, but my child does not get the full benefit of what they would in a day school, so that is the trade off.

My child who is most on track to eventually return to day school learns 2x per week in the school year & 3x per week in the summer w. a tutor. & also learns nightly with my husband. I strongly suggest that if you want your child to be on track to return to day school, you engage one of the local teachers, and keep up as much as possible.

In my community there are unfortunately enough children in this situation, that we started some small learning groups & support activities for kids from frum homes who are outside the day school system.

The public schools are very good here about having kids with different food issues. At the beginning of the school year, I send the children's teachers an e-mail about our dietary restrictions, & ask them to let me know if there will be any food related activities. I also send in packaged treats for my child to have on hand if there is a birthday party, or something.

Attendance is an other issue to pay attention to. I send e-mails ahead of time about the dates of upcoming yom tovs when my child will be out. They usually go to school on Chol ha moed, unless we are doing a very special family activity. --I know other families who keep their children out on chol ha moed.

Make sure you know the school's attendance policy & send the appropriate documentation to show why your child was out (religious reasons).

Every family has to make the decision that is best for their child & their family. I wish you the best in the chinuch of your children.

imorethanamother

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 12:20 am

I have one child in public school because he has special needs. The truth is that it's hard on all the siblings when one child is singled out for public school. In a way, it would be easier if you pulled them all out.

You will get questions of "why me?" And "why did you take her out of school?" From your kids, and it will be heartbreaking and not easy to explain. Money is a hard concept for them to understand, and I worry about your child in 2nd grade and her feelings. I wish I could help you in some way.

Another amother said it correctly - every new school that opens up in a neighborhood dwindles resources. If we all pooled together, all Jews, we wouldn't have these financial worries. Time and again I see that the schools that do the best are the ones that have the widest web.

As a side note, it gets so frustrating to have meshulachim at the door who say they need money because they just started a new yeshiva in Israel. Why? There aren't enough? And it's always for a really select type of child, so narrow. And they don't realize that my tuition here is also similar to the OP. $42,000 a year is just not sustainable.

Pita

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 7:26 am

I vote for a positive spin.

I have 2 kids in public school, and I believe they are the only Jewish kids in the school (I have heard rumor there is one other Jewish family and there are several intermarried families, but there are over 500 kids in the school). But we live in the age of diversity, and being different is now celebrated. Somehow my children feel proud of who they are, and special. The teachers and other kids have been amazing.

I spoke with teachers early on to make sure if they have snack they know out standards, and I often bring snacks or special treats (e.g. when they had a project with marshmallows I brought them so that everyone ate Kosher marshmallows).

The only real challenges are the first month of school when they miss about a week cumulatively, and x-mas. I live in Texas, and that is a BIG deal here. But I explained to my kids that they only have 2 little one-day holidays, and they have to put all the love we put into all of our holidays into those two days. My kids were ok with that and no longer felt sorry for themselves.

If you live a Jewish life at home (and I know you do), your daughter will know who she is and learn what she needs to know. And in fact often we learn more when we realize not every does things the same way; we become more aware of our own ways.

In the long run, she will be stronger. Being in a Jewish school means she does not have to strong to be proud of being a Jew and living a Jewish life. When she goes out into the world she will be accustomed to feeling that being different is ok, and living her life the way she knows is right for her and her family (not that I am berating Jewish schools; each one has its advantages).

Good luck!

SRS

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 9:04 am

amother wrote:

I didn't read the while thread.
I would beg and go to every rabbi and rich person I know all around the world before placing one child in ps. It is a huge move for the whole family. I can't imagine one child who is singled out. I'm so sorry that you have to consider that option. We know a rich person who pays our tuition. We would never have 42000 to pay for schools.

I think my yetzer hara got the better of me, but this is coming from another person who wonders who is getting pulled out of school when because we can't pay 42K although that bill is coming 'round the bend. The thing is that someone MUST pay that 42K because so many other people cannot/will not. For all I know the 42K that the OP has been offered is a bargain of a deal since I don't think she stated the number of kids. This is the result of the route the schools have gone in to provide schooling for all. Like I said before, I don't want to derail the thread, but this is a common concern of parents of what to do when the bill is too hot to handle and, at least for me, understanding how it came to be and that it is NOT personal, but structural and the natural result of policies I did not vote for, makes it easier to handle that in a few we might be in the same boat of deciding on homeschooling or public schooling.

SRS

Mon, Jul 07 2014, 9:07 am

And I vote for a positive spin, but do think you should consider pulling everyone out for a year or two if possible IF you think you can get out of debt and get your finances during that time period to a point that you can put everyone back in. However, if you feel it is too disruptive to take the older ones out, putting in the youngest is probably your only option.

If you can get her into a specialized public school program or charter (there are some in my area), you could say make that the selling point.