Spinoff: Parents and ILs Paying for Bris

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amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:05 pm

I decided to start a spinoff since it was such a hot topic.

I am B"H expecting my second (hence why I'm anon because we haven't told most people yet) and my first was a girl. However, since we didn't find out what we were having, we talked extensivly with our parents about what we would do if it was a boy. It was a given that they were going to help us pay for it (don't jump on me now...we were grateful for the offer, and we were and still are being supported by them while DH was in Kollel and we were both in school, now DH is at a starter job and my parents may not be able to help as much anymore, but we will see). However, my mother told me strait out that it is customary for the paternal grandfather to be Sandek at the first grandson's bris (which it was for both our fathers), it was also going to be nice because it was obvious that the baby would be named for FILs father who had died within the year. I was so grateful that my parents were understanding and they were telling me that FIL would be sandek!

In the end it was a moot point because BH I had a girl. But now that I am expecting, I need help with another issue. Basically I live near no immediate family (parents, ILs and siblings all live in other states), but close to my grandparents, aunts, uncles and extended family. Because I did not grow up here, I do not have a big Kesher with my parents first cousins that live here, and with my grandparents siblings. I go to their Simchos, and know some better than others, but KA"H mine and Dh's families are large and we don't get around to everyone. My wedding was a plane ride away and almost none of my parent's cousins made a priority to fly in for it (one did, and this is the one we are especially close to). However, I know that they will all come to my bris as it will be local. Okay, I am fine with that, and my parents specifically said that they would help pay for those people who came specifically for my parents. However, my grandmother is a really pushy person and tries to make every Simcha HER simcha as if she planned it and was paying for it (she doesn't do either). By my wedding, she pushed my parents so hard because my parents made a VERY simple wedding, and practically sulked through it because it wasn't to her standards. Rolling Eyes

She also got very upset because my parents didn't let her invite her friends that she felt she was entitled to have at the wedding.

So basically, I know that she will tell the entire world that she wants to that we are making a bris and invite them. We do NOT want her friends at our bris. (My aunt made a bris recently, which I'm sure my grandparents payed for, and it was almost exclusively their friends and they call all of the shots.) My parents friends I can handle, but not the next generation. Besides that B"H we have large families and friends and there will be loads of people there already. Also, for my ILs side, it will be very emotional, as we still intend to give my FIL's father's name, and it will be the first one to have the exact name including the last name. How do I politely, but strongly (cuz thats the only way that works), tell my grandmother that our Simcha is only for those who WE want to invite?

Thanks for letting me vent!

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:16 pm

Can you tell her ahead of time that you would like to keep the occasion small and just got immediate family? And that your husband will take care of informing anyone who needs to know about it, and that she shouldn't worry about telling people about it.

SRS

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:27 pm

We don't invite to a bris, we inform people. Tell her not to invite to the bris and to only inform x, y, and z and x time. In my community, some people put a bris annoucement right in the Shabbos announcements and others put the word out via the grapevine. the latter limits the number of people who come fairly efficiently.

Also, if you feel overwhelmed by it all, tell your parents and they can word with grandma. I think giving birth and then having a bris can be overwhelming for parents and it is respectful to the parents to keep the event casual if that is their desire.

Kugglegirl

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:35 pm

Can you make it somewhere very small? Like in your house or apartment? Or a small shul? Even if it is very crowded, then most people will not stay very long. (We hope...)

Willow43

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:49 pm

ummm just wait and see if its even a boy and chill out!
but lets say you do know its a boy, its your baby, your simcha. my mentality with this stuff is dont take money (unless you absolutely have to)- meaning make a small simple simcha, but it will be YOURS.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:53 pm

I have a much bigger issue than you, but related to the same idea of someone taking over your simcha. I live in a small city where there are only 2 Mohels. we ARE having a boy and we need and want to use mohel A because we are close to him and use him for shaylos amongst other things. My father specifically already told me he wont come to the bris if we dont use mohel B, because he is in a fight with Mohel A. so either we use mohel B who we have nothing to do with, is more expensive, and dont care for, or mohel A who we love and have a kesher to.
FYI my father is not offering to pay for the bris!

SRS

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 1:02 pm

Draw the boundary and use who you like. I guess you should talk to the Rav and see if he has an eitzah. A bris is a very auspicious occasion. If your father can't get over himself, I guess he will lose a chance to be a part of the occasion. With only two mohelim, you don't have much control anyhow. One might be available and one might not be.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 1:05 pm

amother wrote:

Then my suggestion would be to use Mohel A. It is your bris, your $$$, you chose. If your FIL doesn't like it than that's problem.

I'm the OP, and these same grandparents I was venting about did not like that they would have to travel to my hometown (admittedly a long plane ride away), also because that meant that a lot of the people THEY wanted wouldn't be able to come to the wedding (most of my extended family didn't come). At the time one of them needed surgery so my grandfather approached me and asked if it was at all possible that our Sheva Brachos could be in their city (where we now live) because the surgery might have to be that week (it wasn't life threatening, and this was 3 months before the wedding). I told him it was not possible (DH is also from a different city and needed to be with him), and guess what? They showed up and scheduled the surgery for a week later. I knew that they were trying to coerce me into getting at least a little of what they wanted..but I didn't let them.

That's what you have to do with these type of people!

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 1:10 pm

SRS wrote:

Our Rav, whom we are close to, is actually Mohel A!

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 1:12 pm

amother wrote:

Good for you!
As much as its easy to say to just do what I want and its his problem, I would still feel bad, it would still spoil my simcha if he wasnt there, and its a first grandson for him. Yes, its his problem, and yes, I have the backbone to use mohel A, but it would still stink to have to deal with this garbage a week after having a baby....

seeker

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:05 pm

OP, don't tell the grandmother the location and time of the bris until the night before. Sometimes a baby is yellow or something and you really don't know if you'll be able to do it until right before. Even if yours is perfect maybe this qualifies as a white lie Confused

Can your parent whose mother this is take care of this situation?

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:06 pm

you don't have to deal with it a week after having a baby. Talk to your fil now. Explain to him as it's YOU making the simcha, you are going to use the mohel YOU feel comfortable using. Make it very clear that it's nothing personal against him, (and perhaps that you'd be happy to invite someone else and give a kibbud to him - his rav?) also.

seeker

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:08 pm

By the way, my husband (mohel A, in our town) had an identical situation to the mohel issue. His friend felt strongly enough about it to use him anyway. The father(-in-law) came after all, his proclamations were just drama and pressure. What's more, after meeting mohel A at the bris he was most impressed and left very happy. End of issue. And here I was afraid the entire family's peace was about to be destroyed over this.

seeker

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:11 pm

Also I highly recommend having your husband deal with all mohel issues including talking to others who want to mix in. It is his mitzvah, technically, and much easier and more natural for a man to deal with, in my experience. You'll be much more emotional and relationshippy about it.

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:11 pm

I only know of sandak paying some of the bris

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:16 pm

seeker wrote:

Can your parent whose mother this is take care of this situation?

OP here. This is a good idea, but unfortunately my grandparents aren't stupid. They know that we sometimes withhold information from them, and for good reason. So they will not buy that we don't know the time. My parents will try to deal with them, but they have a MUCH worse relationship with my grandparents then we do. But I know that they will try to step in and politely but firmly deal with it. And BH for my therapist who will help me too!

seeker

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:19 pm

Bouncer at the door?!

You said you're having loads of people already, if you do the food buffet style will it really be that bad if a bunch of grandma's friends turn up? Even if she invites the whole world, not everyone really cares enough to get up early, get dressed, and spend their morning at yenem's grandchild's event.

cheeseblintz

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:24 pm

I think you should let your grandparents's friends come to the bris. It's a simcha - be happy and generous, and let a bunch of older people enjoy a happy occasion. These are the times in life to be giving and they won't be around forever. Just enjoy your child and forget the rest.

suzyq

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:30 pm

seeker wrote:

Yeah, I was going to comment about this - we found that, especially for my son whose bris was on a weekday - not that many people really could come. It's early in the morning, but not early enough for those who work. There isn't that much advance notice. People come if they really want to, but I can't imagine that so many of your grandparents friends care that much to come to your bris. (But I could definitely be wrong!) But anyway, just get a bunch of bagels and cream cheese and some danishes and don't worry too much.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:56 pm

cheeseblintz wrote:

OP here: Did you not read my post? Basically she tends to take over every Simcha...and comments about how it isn't to her standards (which any Bris we make won't be!). Also, IY"H this will be a very emotional thing for my IL family, and they aren't exactly the most tactful of people...to say the least. Bli Ayin Harah both DH and I come from large extended families, and I'm not saying that there won't be any relatives of my grandparents there, because there will be plenty. It's their friends that I have to draw the line at, and I know that it is totally reasonable to do so. (They are the types that were shocked by our first when they asked if it is a boy where will the bris be and we told them in our neighborhood...a half hour drive from theirs. They were actually shocked that we weren't going to make in in their area...because all of their family is there! Well we actually have friends and a community where we live. Shocking isn't it?)

Then again, this could all be moot...it could be a girl, and I'm not due for a while B'Shaah Tova!

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