Smarty Pants Know it All

FranticFrummie

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 5:51 am

The title says it all. This is my 11 year old DD. Director

She's a super smart kid. We knew that early on. I encouraged her to learn and explore anything and everything that she showed an interest in, and she devoured it voraciously and begged for more. Being the good mom that I am, I bought her tons of books, took her to the library, and let her watch educational videos. We did science projects at home, and arts and crafts, too.

The problem? Her camp counselor summed it up for me last week. "DD doesn't have any friends at camp, because she's too smart for them. She can only relate to adults." It's true. The other kids her age are pretty parve, and don't have much to say for themselves. They don't talk about ideas, just about people and things. DD likes exploring concepts, facts, figures, and making discoveries. She doesn't care one bit about lip gloss or Justin Beiber. (Thank G-d!)

This also means that she can often come across as bratty, acting superior, and being disdainful of others. I'm constantly reminding her that having good middos is far more important than being right all the time. She does have good middos, but she's still VERY stuck on always being right, and always knowing the answer for everything. If she doesn't know the answer she will make one up, and then fight you to the very death to prove that you are wrong. I can see why the other kids would avoid her, it can be extremely irritating!

Now I'm wondering if I "ruined my kid by making her too smart", and if I "should have kept her dumb, so people would like her better." It's a horrible way to think! Did I ruin her socially? Maybe she'd have social skills problems whether I encouraged her to learn or not. I just don't know.

So, you moms out there with really smart but socially awkward kids, what do you do?

BTW, DD was tested for Asperger's, but didn't meet the criteria. Her current diagnosis is Fragile X Syndrome, and yes, the social problems are definitely part of the syndrome.

imasinger

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 6:48 am

The way I see it, you didn't make your DD academically smart; Hashem did. All you did was help her grow in an area of strength, which is a good thing.

There are smart kids who are socially adept, too. (Their pekeleh will be something else at some point; nobody goes through this world unscarred.) The fact that they exist teaches that the real issue is not how many words your DD knows, but that she may lack the knowledge of when to employ which ones.

Social skills classes and work with a good speech therapist can help a lot in teaching her what she does not see for herself. So can CBT. You might also look for camps where she will meet like minded girls.

Take heart. Sooner or later, her peers will speak more like adults. By then, hopefully, she'll be more attuned to nonverbal "speech" as well.

When you make aliyah, and she has a new language to master, she will need lots of love and support. She is lucky to have a mom who is good at giving it to her.

amother

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 7:01 am

My daughter is younger, but also struggles because she is way ahead of her peers in a lot of ways and behind them in others, including in some social areas, like being very shy. I was the same as a kid, and it was around when I reached your daughter's age that it became most evident that I was not one of the crowd.

You didn't say in your post if the situation bothers your daughter. Mine isn't bothered by it too much, and I remember being a happy kid despite being so out of step myself. Here are some things that helped me and that I'm trying to do with my daughter, in case they could help.

In addition to developing your daughter intellectually (which I think is so important -- chas v'shalom you should ever dumb her down or even not let her develop to her full potential!), you can also do things to develop other sides of her. Does she have a chance to do sports, something artistic, and things she isn't so good at? Learning how to do things you don't do well or which don't come naturally to you is great for balancing out the "know it all" factor.

In terms of friends, for my daughter we've seen that she needs one friend who is at her level. We really searched until we found this kid! They really can play and talk to each other in a way that they can't with anyone else. Since she has this friend, her other friendships are less critical.

We also try to expose her to people of all ages and help her learn how to relate to them (be patient with those who are younger, take direction from older kids, learn from older grownups who have so much life experience, etc). At school and camp this is very hard since they group kids only by age, so if you can get her into frameworks that are not age-specific, or find experiences that would give her the chance to interact with other ages (like visiting a nursing home, babysitting, etc) that might be good for her.

I also think it's important to understand her intelligence, but to put your emphasis on the fact that she is a good girl. This takes some of the pressure off and lets her get recognition for who she is and not just what she can do.

Sorry this is so long (and sorry it's anonymous) but I hope it helps. Sounds like you are a great mom with a wonderful daughter.

amother

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 7:28 am

My young teenage daughter sounds exactly the same. She was just diagnosed aspergers. She does have one very good friend she can discuss intellectual stuff with. Other than that, her peers really don't appreciate her and she gets herself into trouble repeatedly. On the flip side, adults adore her.
My daughter is "addicted" to books and media., and I have questioned myself in the same way you are. Have I fostered this Addiction, by taking her to the library weekly, etc....
I have put a lot of thought into this, and realize that my three other children had the exact same opportunities to read and watch videos just like her. None of them are doing what she is doing. Obviously this is her, and the way she learns.
I'm working very hard on accepting her and appreciating her for who she is.
She is in cbt therapy and we are working on putting together a social skills group.
This is not an easy road to travel, however, I comfort myself knowing that people struggle with much more terrible issues.
I wish you luck and patience....

animeme

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 8:12 am

I have one of these, and so far for me the age you're describing may be the hardest. Before, she could sit and play board games or do something concrete with her peers and now it's all about talk and self care/ shopping they have different talk and my dd had little interest in fancy self care and none in shopping.

As she and her peers age, this gap will reduce somewhat, although I second getting her into a multi-age venue like a writing or art class (sometimes you need to push her way in agewise I she's just too young officially.) If you are in the states next summer there are camps that do this. Pm me for details.

For my dd , and it sounds like for yours too, knowledge and accuracy are the highest values in life and in Torah. Why would anyone not want to know that truth and have the best info? That shouldn't offend anyone, right? At the same time, the making things up comes from two things: a) personal insecurity when she doesn't know, and b) feeling/being expected to know by her peers.

This is something that needs to be worked on, including intense example-setting by her parents and other relevant adults that sometimes adults don't know, even those who are bright and knowledge seeking. Say," I don't know the answer to that," and then offer to look it up if possible. Even better, go find someone else who would/ might know, so she learns not to be embarrassed to go to others. Help her to see who might know what. Slowly she will transfer this from adults to kids, and learn to defer to her peer with a new baby sibling about how newborns sleep, for example, even if that girl seems shallow.

It's a long process. (As an aside, check if she's making anything else up, like telling stories as real events that didn't really happen.) Gettting her involved in writing can help a lot, because there's a venue for her ideas. If you can get her into a writing group, by email or on person, she will get used to taking constructive criticism from others whom she values because they also like ideas.

As an aside, even if she doesn't have aspergers she may benefit from aspergers type therapy and programs since she has similar issues. Your doctor will let you know where you need to factor in differences.

5*Mom

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 9:36 am

amother wrote:

In addition to developing your daughter intellectually (which I think is so important -- chas v'shalom you should ever dumb her down or even not let her develop to her full potential!), you can also do things to develop other sides of her. Does she have a chance to do sports, something artistic, and things she isn't so good at? Learning how to do things you don't do well or which don't come naturally to you is great for balancing out the "know it all" factor.

In terms of friends, for my daughter we've seen that she needs one friend who is at her level. We really searched until we found this kid! They really can play and talk to each other in a way that they can't with anyone else. Since she has this friend, her other friendships are less critical.

We also try to expose her to people of all ages and help her learn how to relate to them (be patient with those who are younger, take direction from older kids, learn from older grownups who have so much life experience, etc). At school and camp this is very hard since they group kids only by age, so if you can get her into frameworks that are not age-specific, or find experiences that would give her the chance to interact with other ages (like visiting a nursing home, babysitting, etc) that might be good for her.

Excellent suggestions.

sneakermom

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 9:48 am

A poster pointed this out.

She has to learn she has value for who she "is" not only for what she "knows".

Smart kids get a lot if feedback and attention for their brain power. They are encouraged to know and often they dazzle adults from a young age.

Sometimes they mistakenly feel that everything is about showing people what you know. Not so much being. But showing and wanting feedback. They mistakenly assume that that is what social interaction is about.

After a while people resent the constant show and begin to think of the kid as weird.

Meanwhile the smart kid can be confused and frightened. Not knowing why their best attempts at socializing are met with disdain or rejection.

The smart kid though can be stubborn. Not willing to give up the old dynamic. Here's where therapy comes into play.

The child needs to explore and understand why they crave the constant feedback. Sometimes it's a form of anxiety. Feeling their self worth is contingent on performance and dazzling and wanting reassurance that one is still worthy.

And sometimes it's simply letting go of old patterns that don't work anymore. And learning better ones.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 10:15 pm

Wow. Thank you so much for all all the encouragement and wise words! I am constantly in awe of this board, and how wonderful all of you ladies are. Hug

DD is bothered by this, because she is highly social. I tell people "she's Asperger's chatty and outgoing cousin". She absolutely cannot read subtle cues. If we watch a movie together she'll be constantly asking "Why was he mad? What are they doing that for? Is she OK?" when to me I think the story line is very straightforward - and I can be pretty socially clueless myself most of the time!

I feel so much of her frustration, because I was exactly like her at that age. I only had one friend per grade, and it was always the other nebby social outcast. No one else would come near me.

DD does tell "stories" that I have to check out with other people. I've been encouraging her to do creative writing, and her teachers all tell me that she has a brilliant future as an author of fiction.

I think that her social awkwardness makes her anxious, and that anxiety makes her even more awkward - a vicious cycle. She's been to therapy for anxiety, and we do exercises at home, but it barely makes a dent. Anxiety is one of the hallmarks of Fragile X, and most kids end up needing to go on meds (which my exDH is dead set against. When we move to Israel I'm going to look into it.)

In Israel I think she may have to "come down a notch" because of the language barrier, but she's excellent with languages, and I know she'll be fluent in no time. Even so, I'm keeping her back a grade for social reasons as well as academic. DD is fine with this, and is actually looking forward to it.

In addition to having problems with her peers, her confidence in dealing with adults can veer into chutzpah, and she doesn't know where to draw the line. If adults are joking with each other, she thinks it's fine to throw in her own two cents. She sees herself as an equal. I am constantly reminding her that she is a child, and that adults are adults. This is usually met with "Well, I am a PERSON, and I have feelings too!" She's obviously really thought this one out.

I almost never mention how smart she is, because she hears it constantly from others. I praise her for kind, generous, and compassionate actions, and for just being who she is. I never want her to confuse what she does with who she is. I've explained to her that it's better to have a good heart, than to be smart but mean. Smartness is a gift, and you have to be careful to use it for good and not for bad.

Iv'e tried to get DD into various after school groups like sports, drama, orchestra, etc. Anything that requires group cooperation makes her frustrated and she begs to quit. If I tell her that I want her to keep trying, she will flat out refuse to do, and I would have to physically DRAG her there (which I'm not willing to do. I'm not going to traumatize her and make things worse!) Once she's made up her mind, that's it. Yeah, she's stubborn. Confused

No matter how much she loves the subject, if she has to work in a group with someone she doesn't get along with, she will drop out and withdraw, even if that means getting a failing grade on the project.

I think I'm going to go do a Google search for "social stories for teens".

amother

Thu, Aug 07 2014, 1:53 am

If it makes you feel better, I have a daughter with the exact opposite. She has a lot of friends, always has to be with people. But she has no interest in learning ANYTHING! If something sounds like something she could possibly hear in school, she will cover her ears. Her grades stink and homework is a struggle. I keep telling her that it's good to know things about the world she lives in etc. but she wants nothing to do with it. Instead she is laughing and having shallow "fun"- that is her goal. See, there's always a flip side, I guess we have to appreciate them for who they are, as hard at it might be. Maybe your daughter can tutor mine LOL!

FranticFrummie

Thu, Aug 07 2014, 1:59 am

amother wrote:

It's always something, right? Our kids would probably hate each other. Confused

Hopefully both our kids will mature and balance out. Your kid may never be a genius, but she sounds like a great camp counselor!