Pro vaccine/Anti vaccine...What about vaccine safety?

california2

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:10 pm

HY - yes, there is quite a bit of literature on the current schedule. Here's a link to a summary document:
http://www.iom.edu/Reports/201......aspx

Here's the AAP paper on Dr Bob's schedule:
http://pediatrics.aappublicati.....+html

And, at the risk of ruining a good theory with data... here's the Japanese vaccination schedule:

http://www.nih.go.jp/niid/imag.....1.pdf
They give the same vaccines we do - a few of our "mandatory" are "voluntary" and a few we don't give at all are "mandatory" (Japanese encephalitis, BCG). So it's about the same.

Barbara

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:21 pm

yogabird wrote:

Do they know if the child that died was previously healthy or there were other issues going on?

So sorry about your experience with your sister, must have been real miserable. Don't wish that kind of thing on anyone. But, (and at the risk of sounding callous, though I don't mean to) IMO that kind of experience doesn't prove the necessity of vaccination. Unpleasantness is a part of life. Not to mention (once again) that the vaccines don't always work...

I'm confused.

You don't wish the kind of unpleasantness caused by chicken pox (and IME what she describes is pretty typical; when I grew up, there was no vaccine, everyone got chicken pox, and the experience of everyone I know was more or less miserable), but don't think the vaccine is necessary. Isn't that pretty much wishing that everyone has that kind of misery?

Supermom#1

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:30 pm

little_mage wrote:

I am bothered by how much nuance is often lost in the vaccine debate, which is something I found very refreshing about your post, OP. I am concerned about the safety of the vaccines and how many we're giving. On the other hand, I know for certain that I don't want these diseases. Therefore, at least for now, I am absolutely giving all vaccines. I would be willing to consider a slightly more spread out schedule, even if it meant more trips to the doctor's office, but I am certainly not willing to do without.
The problem is that medical science (and all science, but especially medicine) is a constantly changing discipline. Things that the medical establishment knew fifty or even ten years ago have since been disproven. To a certain extent, that makes me somewhat skeptical of most radical new health claims.

OP here....Thanks for your post....yours seems to be one of the very few that actually address the topic of vaccine safety and the packed vaccine schedule. I really did not intend for this to become yet another vaccine debate...we've had so many of those already.

I'm interested in hearing from those that agree that most vaccines are important but are concerned about those that aren't as well as the packed schedule (which is mostly for convenience, NOT effectiveness).

Scrabble123

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:40 pm

Supermom#1 wrote:

as well as the packed schedule (which is mostly for convenience, NOT effectiveness).

The schedule is for safety and necessity. Infants are susceptible to severe infections from diseases like Pertussis, Rotavirus, Pneumococcal, etc. diseases. They are given at that age to protect those likely to suffer the worst complications from catching the diseases. Other vaccines, such as Hepatitis A are recommend when traveling out of the country or voluntarily if you feel it is important to you (I know a child who was very sick from Hepatitis from a food purchased at Costco.) Meningitis is recommend for those living in college dorms or in any other packed living situation such as sleep away camp. I don't see why this schedule is convenient, but rather why it is effective at protecting those who need the protection most.

Supermom#1

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:47 pm

Scotty wrote:

possible unproven suspected possibly disproven side effect of vaccines: autism, etc
proven, definite side effect of non vaccination should disease occur: paralysis, handicap, death.

I remember reading about a case of diphtheria where a family of ten sickened - by the time parents were conscious a week later seven out of their eight kids were buried, and the infant only survived because a neighbor ran over and thrust an iron from the fireplace down the kid's throat and seared it open. (simplistically - Diphtheria fills the throat with mucus until its victims strangle/suffocate to death.)

Since then, I THANK HASHEM every time one of my precious kinderlach is zoche to receive a DPT shot from our pediatrician. Thank G-d I live in a country and time where this is possible!!! End of story.

Scotty, firstly, I know this is off topic but I must tell you how much I love and enjoy your exceptionally amazing writing. Congratulations on another super-special book; I loved it!

Since I know how much time and research you put into your stories, I wonder if you did the same with regard to vaccines. The point you make is valid; many children used to die of infectious diseases that are now gone thanks to vaccines. That said, I would really appreciate hearing from you as well as everyone else what they feel/know/researched about the current recommended vaccine schedule, specifically for infants, which I'll post here again:

Birth – Hep B
1 month – Hep B
2 months – DTaP, HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Polio
4 months – DTaP HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Polio
6 months – DTaP, HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Hep B, Flu (2 doses)
1 year – MMR, Chickenpox, Hep A

FDA, CDC & doctors' opinion notwithstanding, are you, as a mother, really ok with this?? No concern at all??

chaiz

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:47 pm

Supermom#1 wrote:

I'm interested in hearing from those that agree that most vaccines are important but are concerned about those that aren't as well as the packed schedule (which is mostly for convenience, NOT effectiveness).

Which one do you not think is necessary?
Convenience affects effectiveness. If something is easier/more convenient to do then it is likelier to get done. This is the reason why Hep B is started at a young age; this way it gets done and no one has to be chased for it. I gave it because I did not want to have to worry about being on top of it later in the future.

poelmamosh

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:52 pm

I am positioning DS#6, aged 3 months, to nurse while my pediatrician will innoculate her for the first time.

Dr: Uh, no...the first one is oral

Me: What? Rotovirus? None of my other kids got.

Dr: We are giving it now. I always wait at least 5 years to track safety and efficacy before introducing new vaccines to my patients .

Last edited by poelmamosh on Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

chaiz

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:54 pm

Supermom#1 wrote:

Since I know how much time and research you put into your stories, I wonder if you did the same with regard to vaccines. The point you make is valid; many children used to die of infectious diseases that are now gone thanks to vaccines. That said, I would really appreciate hearing from you as well as everyone else what they feel/know/researched about the current recommended vaccine schedule, specifically for infants, which I'll post here again:

Birth – Hep B
1 month – Hep B
2 months – DTaP, HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Polio
4 months – DTaP HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Polio
6 months – DTaP, HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Hep B, Flu (2 doses)
1 year – MMR, Chickenpox, Hep A

FDA, CDC & doctors' opinion notwithstanding, are you, as a mother, really ok with this?? No concern at all??

I do know there are mainstream medical doctors who do believe in giving too many at once and that is what I plan on doing. But really not that concerned as the point is that the vaccines are viruses weak enough to not strain the body.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:58 pm

chaiz wrote:

Does that make sense to you? A vaccine is designed to trigger an immune response strong enough to develop immunity.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:59 pm

Barbara wrote:

AIUI, under applicable US law, all vaccine providers, public or private, are required by the National Vaccine Childhood Injury Act (NCVIA - 42 U.S.C. § 300aa) to give the appropriate VIS to the patient (or parent or legal representative) prior to every dose of specific vaccines. They can give you a copy, have you read an office copy, read online, etc. But you have to have seen it.

IIRC, they are also required to confirm that they did so in their medical records.

If your doctor isn't doing this, perhaps you should find a different doctor.

Maybe you can start a poll if doctors actually do that.

Don't worry about me finding a new doctor though. I moved and no longer use him and am very upset about it because he was excellent. Truly one of a kind. We currently have no pediatrician. Is that any better?

Supermom#1

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:59 pm

chaiz wrote:

So is convenience, however effective, a good enough reason to inject a 2 month old infant with so many vaccines at once? What about safety? Is that not a consideration at all?
Yes, I know that some will say there were safety studies. I'm still skeptical. Even if the infants recovers from the immediate side effects, I can't imagine that doing this every 2 months doesn't have a negative on such a small, delicate, developing brain....

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 2:03 pm

california2 wrote:

I'd like studies, not articles or summaries. I can't sift through 236 pages looking for studies.

out-of-towner

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 2:04 pm

Supermom#1 wrote:

Yes. There are risks in vaccines. There are risks in every kind of medicine that you will take. But I firmly believe that the risks outweigh the benefits. And that is why I vaccinate.

And BTW, my ped is very good about asking if we would like to push off some shots by a month so that our kids will not get too many at once. And I usually do just that.

chaiz

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 2:11 pm

Supermom#1 wrote:

Sometimes it is safer in the long run because it is more effective, enough so. Think about it, how often do you want to go to the doctor to get shots?

chaiz

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 2:45 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

My children go for well visits every year. Most years past infancy there is no vaccine on the schedule. There is no reason you can't make up a Hep B then if you'd like to make sure your kids get it but don't feel they need it as newborns.

Yes, but the question is how many parents will do it? I know that I am nervous I would forget, and no not because I do not care about my child. Therefore I gave it in the hospital even though I was initially not planning on it.