Satmar protest against Israel/Netanyahu's speech

black sheep

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:24 pm

sequoia wrote:

All the people who could chime in from the other side -- the enthusiastic, passionately committed religious Zionist side -- have left imamother. Slushiemom, hindarochel, Tamiri, and others...

It's a shame.

I guess that just leaves me then (although I never considered myself officially a zionist before, but if standing up for israel against Her enemies makes me a Zionist, then so be it!!!)

Barbara

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:25 pm

sourstix wrote:

I wont answer this cause there isnt one. I will just say one thing that the satmar rebbe r'yoel ztl' and I am not satmar and by far not, I do agree and all gedolim agree that having a jewish government is against the torah and that remains till mashiach arrives. which means we are doing something against the torah. when something is done against the torah it has no strength, and thats what I am seeing. what they beleive is that since we are doing stuff against the torah we need to do teshuva and getting rid of the medina is it. for example if you turn on a light on shabbos how do we fix it? do teshuva, learn the halachos so you would remember. here too you did an aveira now do teshuva and the rally is to tell them they are doing something wrong do teshuva. getting rid of the medina isnt an option now so thats why I say there isnt an answer. we are stuck whatever we do we will pay the price.

How offensive. YOUR rabbis think that Israel is anti-torah? Stay out of Israel. Stay out of Israeli politics.

Each and every great rabbi of our time supports the State of Israel. Every last one of them. Every Gadol. Every one of them.

sequoia

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:26 pm

black sheep wrote:

I guess that just leaves me then (although I never considered myself officially a zionist before, but if standing up for israel against Her enemies makes me a Zionist, then so be it!!!)

I am, but I live in America. I meant dati leumi Israelis.

amother

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:28 pm

black sheep wrote:

if you turn to Hashem to daven while standing on the blood of your brothers, you will not be zocheh to the geulah.

and I am very clear: every man and woman who serves in the IDF is an "ehrliche yid." true, not all of them are shomer mitzvos, but there are many ways to be koneh olam haba, and as you said, we don't need to judge their righteousness we can leave that to Hashem. but there is one certain way to lose olam haba and ehrliche yid status in this world: proclaim your allegiance with the enemies of Israel. declare that you don't support your brother's right to live.

yes it is a mitzvah to join the IDF. although, for most of those in the IDF, it isn't done out of doing a mitzvah but rather because there is no other choice.

I wonder how the rebbe would react if he was faced personally with the same choice. if terrorist surrounded HIS neigborhood and threatened to kill them all, including him. would he still say his only hope is to pray? that it is assur to fight?

I wonder the same with many things not only with Zionism. We do not support the enemy nor do we support the existence of a Jewish land.
I wish there wld be an easy way out of it. It is known that before moshiach will come there will be the war of gog imugog. What is left for me to do is to daven and ask Hashem that he shld send moshiach without losing yidishe lives.

becky

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:33 pm

I have two questions after reading parts of this thread

1. If Chassidic Jews supposedly refrained from saving themselves from the Holocaust only because of their Rebbes' alleged warnings to stay put, shouldn't the gas chambers have been full of Chassidim only? Why were they full of secular, educated, enlightened and assimilated Jews too? Who stopped the Jewish intelligentsia from saving themselves?

2. If Iran is the new Nazi Germany, and their weapons are far more powerful than those of WWII, and their desire to wipe Israel off the map is clearly stated and more widely known than that of Hitler YM"S prior to WWII, and 6,000,000 Jews (bli ayin hara) reside in Israel, shouldn't everyone in Israel escape? Why aren't we hearing any warnings now?

black sheep

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:38 pm

amother wrote:

um, excuse me, isn't this thread about satmar protesting netanyahu's speech? how can you say "we do not support the enemy?" the whole speech was about not allowing Iran to sign an international nuclear deal, which Netanyahu clearly explained will lead them to having a nuclear bomb, which they have clearly stated they will use to wipe israel off the map (and also that it would help if all jews would gather in israel to make their job of killing all jews easier.) satmar sent busloads of men and children to protest this speech, you call this not taking sides?

black sheep

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:39 pm

becky wrote:

we are hearing warnings. that was netanyahu's speech. except that, unlike the satmar rebbe, netanyahu doesn't want to only save himself by running away, he wants to stay and help all the jews of israel defend themselves and survive.

amother

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:44 pm

becky wrote:

My grandparents and family were satmar. The nazis didnt get there until (I believe but will have to double check for exact date) 1944. People there already heard the rumors and were getting ready to leave some with tickets in their hands. The rebbe advised them not to leave and almost all of them perished.
I believe the secular, educated Jews were from different countries altogether and the Nazis invaded those countries beforehand (unless they were from germany) leaving them no time to escape.

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:57 pm

Heyaaa wrote:

Go back to my comment about hallel. It's the charedim who don't want to admit that there were nissim giluyim. Zionists, otoh do say there were nissim giluyim, hence they say hallel.

The war of independence began when 5 neighboring Arab countries attacked Israel. The Israelis had been skeletons in death camps at most 3 years earlier and the got off the boat without training and they would stuff guns in their hands and tell them be soldiers to defend the land. And they won!! How is that not an open miracle?

War of 67 was a similar story. The Arab countries had the old city and they wanted more so they declared war. I think there were 3 Arab countries involved this time. They started losing on the first day but the Arab leaders were too embarrassed to admit defeat so they told the army they're winning, and I forget the details but it was that stupidity that led to them losing.

About the tanach, we weren't together throughout all of tanach, geographically or morally. Although it would be nice to think we were.

Just one point before I get back to the thread. Just because chareidim don't say Hallel doesn't mean that they aren't grateful for the kiss from the RBSh"O. Maybe it's the end of galus, not the beginning of the geulah, or hesitancy to count chickens, or issues with the sefira. Whatever it is, there are many chareidim, or American yeshivish types, who are passionate about Eretz Yisrael, even in its current form. I don't know why you think they/we don't recognize the nissim geluyim.

becky

Sun, Mar 08 2015, 9:58 pm

"I believe the secular, educated Jews were from different countries altogether and the Nazis invaded those countries beforehand (unless they were from germany) leaving them no time to escape. "

There were more assimilated Jews in Hungary/Romania (where Satmar was based) than Chassidim. They were murdered in 1944. HY"D