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Forum
-> Household Management
-> Finances
amother
Blonde
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 2:00 pm
We b"h earn a nice income and even call ourselves rich. We afford to give large amounts of charity some times. We don't spend on fancy houses or clothing. So why is it so that we can't afford life? There are crazy tuition expenses and then groceries. We pay high rent. We can't bounce this. How can anybody manage? Is there people out there with a family of a few kids that can say that they never struggle?
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tigerwife
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 2:02 pm
Eizehu ashir? Sameich bechelko.
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pesek zman
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 2:03 pm
It doesn't sound as if you are rich. You are renting for one thing. Stop identifying as rich and if you can't afford tuition and groceries you shouldn't be giving large amounts to charity.
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amother
Coral
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 2:04 pm
Oh man ... I'm with you. We B"H earn a very nice living and already own a home. But we still huff and puff with the tuitions, summer camp, babysitting, etc. We hardly ever take vacation unless it's a small one with the kids costing a few hundred dollars total. An acquaintance of mine has a husband that did very well and made many millions of dollars in a short amount of time. Their life took a sharp turn for the worse after that ... so I am cool with the huffing and puffing and I thank Hashem for being able to meet my life expenses.
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Zehava
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 2:04 pm
First of all you can't afford huge amounts of charity if you can't cover basic expenses. Second, many people are on government assistance
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amother
Blonde
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 2:39 pm
pesek zman wrote: | It doesn't sound as if you are rich. You are renting for one thing. Stop identifying as rich and if you can't afford tuition and groceries you shouldn't be giving large amounts to charity. |
I'll correct myself - We 'own' our home. We pay our mortgage. Have to pay regular tuition, no discounts. We spend normal for food and clothing and some repairs and house maintenance help and do give charity when we feel needed. We feel that if we earn these amounts then we should give for those who have nothing. We don't pay that much for charity but pay for most organizations we are familiar something. For door knockers we give up to 50¢ as we don't want to encourage uninvited guest.
My question is for those people with a nice income. Do you really manage all expenses?
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mummiedearest
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 2:47 pm
amother wrote: | I'll correct myself - We 'own' our home. We pay our mortgage. Have to pay regular tuition, no discounts. We spend normal for food and clothing and some repairs and house maintenance help and do give charity when we feel needed. We feel that if we earn these amounts then we should give for those who have nothing. We don't pay that much for charity but pay for most organizations we are familiar something. For door knockers we give up to 50¢ as we don't want to encourage uninvited guest.
My question is for those people with a nice income. Do you really manage all expenses? |
define a nice income. and be aware that costs vary based on family size. a family with $300K a year may do fine with one kid's tuition to pay, but may not do so well with 12 kids. and of course, tuition varies by school/area. anyone with a kid in a special ed school who has to pay full tuition will have to pay even more. there are so many factors here. what do you consider normal grocery costs? what if a kid has severe allergies/someone has a special medical diet? some people have monthly medical expenses to cover. there are other factors as well.
perhaps you should define "rich" as "those who can rock life's expenses." that category certainly exists.
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amother
Olive
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 4:12 pm
amother wrote: | I'll correct myself - We 'own' our home. We pay our mortgage. Have to pay regular tuition, no discounts. We spend normal for food and clothing and some repairs and house maintenance help and do give charity when we feel needed. We feel that if we earn these amounts then we should give for those who have nothing. We don't pay that much for charity but pay for most organizations we are familiar something. For door knockers we give up to 50¢ as we don't want to encourage uninvited guest.
My question is for those people with a nice income. Do you really manage all expenses? |
Since you didn't define nice income, I'll use my own definition and put ourselves in that category.
Yes we can manage all expenses. We give about 30% of our income to tzedakah, pay a boatload of taxes, put away a nice chunk for savings, and live off the rest. We buy and do most of the things we want to, but we don't have the need for very expensive things so that's not a problem.
I really wonder why you would call yourself rich when you have such difficulty with your expenses. Even we don't consider ourselves rich and we live the lifestyle I described above.
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amother
Babypink
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 4:28 pm
To me, being rich means covering all my expenses.
I don't care if that amount is $50,000 a year or $300K.
If you're struggling, you're not making enough yet, sorry.
Maybe in a different city you'd be considered rich if the expenses were less.
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gp2.0
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 4:41 pm
The funny thing is - I don't think anyone ever describes themselves as super rich.
"Oh, I own a house, but I have to pay a mortgage every month, so I'm not that rich."
"Oh, I own my house outright, but I can't afford to vacation more than once a year, so I'm not that rich."
"Oh, I own my house outright and I've been on six vacations this year, but I can't afford to buy houses for all six of my kids, so I'm not that rich."
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amother
White
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 4:42 pm
amother wrote: | We b"h earn a nice income and even call ourselves rich. We afford to give large amounts of charity some times. We don't spend on fancy houses or clothing. So why is it so that we can't afford life? There are crazy tuition expenses and then groceries. We pay high rent. We can't bounce this. How can anybody manage? Is there people out there with a family of a few kids that can say that they never struggle? |
Why do you call yourselves rich if you can't even afford groceries comfortably? Unless you mean eizahu ashir?
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amother
Aqua
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 4:42 pm
I define rich, as not having to think twice before spending any kind of money. Period. Whether its necessities or luxuries.
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amother
Blonde
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 4:47 pm
I can easily say 3k. We have a normal healthy family with 5 kids.
Oh, and don't have yearly vocations. We don't buy typically luxurious. We do have 4 tuition expenses. Mortgage, groceries, commute, insurance, new seasonal clothing, 1 car and some cleaning help.
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Raisin
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 5:19 pm
covering all your expenses =comfortable
this plus exotic vacations and luxuries=rich
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zaq
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 5:49 pm
3K--is that a week, which would be about $150K a year? Or do you mean $300K a year?
When people start to make more money, their standards and their standard of living usually creep up without their realizing it. They might start buying brand names instead of generic, the better produce instead of the cheapest available, more expensive cuts of meat or more brand-name clothing. They may have company more often. They may replace their car every five or six years instead of every ten, turn their thermostat up a few degrees in winter and down a few in summer, buy their children new shoes three times a year instead of twice a year. They may buy a slightly bigger house in a nicer part of town or in a nicer town entirely. No one of these changes dramatically shouts "YIPPEE! WE"RE RICH!", but taken together they can account for significantly higher expenses without a drastically different lifestyle.
They may "income out" of certain benefits, such as tuition discounts. If you pay for your own health insurance in full with no employer contribution, or if your employer contribution is minimal, that can be a huge drain on your wallet. The type of life insurance you buy also matters. For young people, whole-life tends to be very expensive while term tends to be much cheaper.
You say you don't buy "typically luxurious", but those are relative terms. If everyone else in your crowd buys sheet sets for $300 a pop and you spend $100 a pop, you are being positively miserly in comparison--but this is still a lot of money to spend on sheets. Ditto for everything else.
I am reminded of the days when I used to read New York magazine's Sales and Bargains column--strictly for entertainment. Wonderful metziahs you could get: a (fill in the blank with a designer name) cotton eyelet skirt, regularly $2000, now only $625. (Fill in another designer name) leather gloves, regularly $750, now only $250. Call me a peasant, but I would eat ground glass before I spent $625 on a skirt or $250 on a pair of gloves. You see what I'm getting at?
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fmt4
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 5:55 pm
Yeah, you're not rich. Rich doesn't depend on how much money you make. It depends on if that amount of money is enough for you to not have to worry about paying for things. That depends on each family and lifestyle. So if you were not frum and had 2 kids then maybe you'd be rich. But because you're frum and have five kids, you're not.
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youngishbear
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 6:01 pm
amother wrote: | Since you didn't define nice income, I'll use my own definition and put ourselves in that category.
Yes we can manage all expenses. We give about 30% of our income to tzedakah, pay a boatload of taxes, put away a nice chunk for savings, and live off the rest. We buy and do most of the things we want to, but we don't have the need for very expensive things so that's not a problem.
I really wonder why you would call yourself rich when you have such difficulty with your expenses. Even we don't consider ourselves rich and we live the lifestyle I described above. |
Just wondering... Isn't the maximum tzedakah supposed to be a chomesh = 20%?
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amother
Olive
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 6:07 pm
youngishbear wrote: | Just wondering... Isn't the maximum tzedakah supposed to be a chomesh = 20%? |
I didn't realize there was a maximum to tzedakah. Obviously neither does my husband, since he's the one distributing it. (not that it would matter to him.)
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amother
Smokey
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 6:33 pm
We don't struggle at all, BH, at this point in our lives. But that still means living within our means. Dh earns around $750K. We pay full tuition for multiple kids; we have a special needs kid who costs approx the amount of 3 kids. We live in a very nice house, but it's not some mansion. 3500 sq ft, done nicely. See have nice cars.
Can I afford a full-time maid or babysitter? I guess if I wanted that but I prefer to have more money in the bank, especially since one of my kids' future may be more uncertain and he may need continuous help. I hope I can travel when my kids are older. I hope I can help them out financially when they are older, within reason. I'd rather save for that. I'm not a fancy person. I shop at Target, I don't get manicures, I wear mainly tichels not $$ sheitels etc
We earn a lot, but seriously, after taxes and all the other costs of life, we're not exactly affording chagim in Israel and summers away abroad. Even at this income level I can't just go buy a Chloe bag without blinking an eye. There are many different levels of wealth. You could always have more, you could always have less.
Also, the reality is that dh works nonstop to earn that salary and doesn't have enough time off for all that.
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zaq
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Wed, Jul 01 2015, 6:52 pm
fmt4 wrote: | Yeah, you're not rich. Rich doesn't depend on how much money you make. It depends on if that amount of money is enough for you to not have to worry about paying for things. That depends on each family and lifestyle. So if you were not frum and had 2 kids then maybe you'd be rich. But because you're frum and have five kids, you're not. |
I beg to differ. There are an astonishing number of people with extremely high net worth who "can't make ends meet". This may be because they bought a house for thirty million plus a fleet of private planes when they could really afford only a twenty- million- dollar house and one plane. They may not be able to pay for the things they bought, but they are, even so, very, very rich.
The very very rich are different. They can go bankrupt and still have more stuff than you, me, and all our friends put together.
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