S/O how do you discipline your kids

mha3484

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 4:43 pm

relish wrote:

I treat them like they are mature and they act mature.
I take away privileges if they misuse them.
I explain why we have to act a certain way- a lot.
We discuss how said child would feel if the same action was done to them.
If I feel like I am about to lose my cool, I leave the room.
I encourage a lot.
I find many times to catch them being good each day. They know I notice, and my older one started pointing out to my younger one the things younger one is doing good.
They want to make me happy, so this is working for me now.
When they tantrum, I give them their space to cry, until they are ready to behave.
We discuss how angry feelings can make us lose control, and what to do instead of "bad behavior"

My kids are very young, so I can't say how well this will work in the long run.

I wanted to like this twice. I work very hard on doing the same with my 4 and a half year old.

WriterMom

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 8:27 am

We seldom do 'punishment' at all; most of the time we try to treat it as a problem to be solved, WITH the child. The closest we come to using negative consequences is for fighting with each other, and the consequence is being sent to their room/to sit in a neutral space away from the sibling(s), but even that isn't framed as punishment, more like 'you have shown you can't be around X right now, so you are going to be by yourself until you calm down and can behave appropriately around every member of the family.'

Kids aren't dumb, and they are self-interested. If you can say to them 'this is why your behaviour is a problem. What can we do to help you make better choices in this situation?' they can work with you from a much earlier age than most people expect. My oldest is a teen, and this approach only gets more effective with time IME.

The other thing is not to frame normal behaviour as a disciplinary issue. If your three year old is up late and out of the house at a social function (overtired, overstimulated, new surroundings) and throws a massive tantrum, they're not misbehaving, they are behaving as a healthy normal toddler would to lots of stresses. So while you need to care for that child (possibly by ending the visit and putting them to bed) it's neither helpful nor appropriate to view this a misbehaviour and to punish them. The onus for putting them in situations in which they behave as you want is on you, especially when they're younger and then as they get older they can become more responsible for this.

amother

Teal

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 9:14 am

WriterMom wrote:

A lot of good points here but I find that it's not enough to cover the discipline of a difficult child. We do not hit our children and with most of them it is fine. They are able to understand when we explain why they must go to their room or turn off the Xbox or whatever.

But for one child, that is just not enough. She is super intense and super sensitive, so even raising my voice inevitably results in a huge blowup. She also has little self control. Things like taking away privileges simply don't work because then we just have another blowup when it would have been time for the privilege.

I have considered consulting with a therapist but my husband doesn't want to, for various reasons. In the meantime, we just hope for small improvements day by day, without doing too much long term damage to her or to us. I guess it will be funny if after all that she goes off the derech anyway. Smile

Chayalle

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 10:10 am

amother wrote:

I have a child that could fit this description - more sensitive, more temperamental, and also impulsive.. She's still pretty young (7) and we have a way to go yet...but she's really made lots of improvement in many areas (two steps forward, one step back...)

When she was much younger (like 4 or 5) I found role playing to be very effective. We had little "metchies" that had roles - one we named Perry was always doing the correct behavior, and one we named Raizy (I chose two names that were arbitrary, and no one in our surroundings has those names) was always giving in to her impulses. When she misbehaved we used to discuss what Perry did in that situation, and how Raizy couldn't manage to behave and had to go to time-out...we would then take the little Raizy mentchie and put her in time out. Sometimes DD had to go to time-out too, if she couldn't behave around people. Sometimes, after gleefully putting Raizy under the table, she'd march off to her room by herself (with me stifling a laugh behind my fingers.)

As she got older, discussions took the place of role playing. I've discussed with DD what we should do if she cannot behave. For example, my younger sister is engaged, and DD did not behave appropriately when her Chassan came by. I discussed this with DD, and we came to the conclusion that she would have to be in her room if she could not behave the next time....next time she was good for a while but then once again was inappropriate, and I gently lead her to her room. She went quietly and came out a few minutes later, much subdued. The next visit she pretty much behaved.

Amazingly, she behaves in school, for the most part...Kein Yirbu. B"H. She had awesome teachers this past year. I'm praying for next year.

I actually find that with this child, I MUST STAY CALM. Raising my voice with her would have the effect of getting into a tornado center - a power struggle would ensue where each of us would vie for the louder position, and it would just spiral upwards and out of control. So when she tantrums, I have this voice in my head saying STAY CALM AND FIRM. I say to her - I love you very much and I know you want XYZ but it's not one of your choices right now. You can either choose to stop yelling and do ABC, or you can choose to take some space in your room until you calm down and are ready to make other good choices. I repeat this as necessary, always including that I love her very much and wish everything could go as she wants, but that would not be good for her or is not possible, yada yada yada.

Sometimes she needs to go to her room for a few minutes. Sometimes she's able to calm down and make an appropriate choice. This is what I mean by steps forward, steps backwards.

I also focus on her strong points - B"AH she has so much goodness (she has a heart of GOLD) and so much energy. Brains too, B"AH. I see a future in Chinuch for her - she has the stamina to be a principal one day, and the love in her heart, too. I want to keep that love alive, not crush it Ch"v - which is why, more than ever, I would not potch this child.

I found the book The Explosive Child to be very helpful for kids like DD. B"H her explosions are much more rare these days.

ETA: about consulting a therapist, I have a parenting mentor whom I've consulted for specific issues here and there, and found it gives me alot of chizzuk, besides for spot on advice. If your relationship with your child is not where you want it to be, please reconsider!

Gitch

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 1:29 pm

I agree with the person above who said not to pathologize normal, age appropriate behavior. We must take our child's age AND temperament into account and match our reactions accordingly. Some kids can sit still for longer and listen, others need to move around more. Instead of making the child feel that he is misbehaving and needs to punished, to do what other kids are doing, help him with strategies so he can be successful.

Kids want to be good, they want to behave, they want to feel good about themselves. It is our job as parents, to help them get there. I, personally, don't do it by punishing, but more by making the home environment one that enables the kids to do the right thing. I am firm in my expectations, there are natural consequences for behaviors, but it is matter of fact and not punitive.

So when my 5 y.o. is horsing around at bedtime, there is no time for a story. He doesn't lose the story because I'm punishing him, he loses it because he didn't leave enough time for it. The power is his, not mine.

For the above example about acting inappropriately with guests - I would frame that differentely. I would have a conversation before the event about how sometimes its hard for that child to do xyz. What strategies can we come up with now, to use when she is feeling like its too much. Then, during the event, use the strategy and head off any misbehavior. So, for example, you can suggest, when you feel yourself getting wild, going to your room and playing quietly for a few minutes can help you calm down. Then during the event, check in with her - do you think you need some alone time? Now you've made going to her room into a positive thing - she's in control of her behavior, and she learns to hear the signals her body is sending her and not a punishment- you misbehaved so go to your room.

As the adults, we can change what we do and say to effect change in our kids.

WriterMom

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 1:39 pm

Chayalle, I have an 'explosive' one too ... (and thanks for the book suggestion, I've not heard of that before.)

It's a challenge. It's not one I've fully mastered, either, but we're working on it. One very counterintuitive thing that works a lot, if not 100%: one time my difficult child was throwing a horrible, loud, shrieky, 'the neighbours will hear and this is mortifying' fit. I didn't want to yell myself; I really didn't want to cancel the whole family's trip to impose the natural consequence of 'if you cannot behave we will not go'; and a terrible part of me just wanted to wallop him, even though I don't believe in doing that, because I was so frustrated. I don't know why, but I just hugged him and said "I love you very much and I don't know what to do when you behave like this," and he started hugging me back and settled down. Since then I've tried to respond with love and affection even when he is at his least lovable, and it makes a big difference.

Something else that started working when he was older was to validate his feelings while telling him what the problem was with his behaviour. ie "You are allowed to be angry/hurt/frustrated, but you are not allowed to throw/scream/hit. Can you tell me why you are angry/hurt/frustrated so we can fix it?"

Again, it doesn't work 100% of the time, but it works more often, and better, than yelling, or beating myself up for not knowing how to cope with such behaviour.

Chayalle

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 2:45 pm

WriterMom wrote:

One very counterintuitive thing that works a lot, if not 100%: one time my difficult child was throwing a horrible, loud, shrieky, 'the neighbours will hear and this is mortifying' fit. I didn't want to yell myself; I really didn't want to cancel the whole family's trip to impose the natural consequence of 'if you cannot behave we will not go'; and a terrible part of me just wanted to wallop him, even though I don't believe in doing that, because I was so frustrated. I don't know why, but I just hugged him and said "I love you very much and I don't know what to do when you behave like this," and he started hugging me back and settled down. Since then I've tried to respond with love and affection even when he is at his least lovable, and it makes a big difference.

Something else that started working when he was older was to validate his feelings while telling him what the problem was with his behaviour. ie "You are allowed to be angry/hurt/frustrated, but you are not allowed to throw/scream/hit. Can you tell me why you are angry/hurt/frustrated so we can fix it?"

Again, it doesn't work 100% of the time, but it works more often, and better, than yelling, or beating myself up for not knowing how to cope with such behaviour.

I love this.

Chayalle

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 2:48 pm

sourstix wrote:

chayalla- I was discussing this issue with someone today. about the being sensitive, and if I raise my voice it becomes a yelling match. this friend lets call her- said that the more you talk to kids while disciplining the worse it gets. when telling her to speak nicely instead of a tantrum. say calmly speak nicely and repeat only those words, no lecturing cause that makes them angry. and thats where I realize I get into trouble.

I also find that my DD is smarter and more creative than I am in many ways. She also has more energy and stamina, she's stubborn and persistent. If I talk to her she can talk around me in circles! So it's better for me to just stick to whatever it is I'm saying, calmly, over and over, than get into any arguments.

When she's calm and rational, though, we can have discussions...but not when she's emotional and vested in something, and heating up.....

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 3:02 pm

relish wrote:

This works perfectly well with hormonal 12yo girls, too!

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 3:12 pm

I'm copying this from a reply I made in another thread, "4yo tantrums":
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I was just given an old copy of "How to talk so your kids will listen - how to listen so your kids will talk".

It is BRILLIANT! I can't recommend it enough. I have a 12yo girl who is going through some difficult phases, and making the home an unpleasant place to be. I read the book in one sitting on Shabbos, tried using the technique with her, and she talked to me a LOT. A few hours later she came to me and gave me a kiss (which hasn't happened in ages), and said "I love you. Thank you for letting me talk about my problems."

I didn't try to "fix" anything. I didn't give her my opinions. I don't even think we came to any satisfactory conclusions about her issues. Just feeling HEARD was enough for her.

The book has tons of advice on how to use these techniques with toddlers, and even non verbal kids - not just teens. Basically, teens are just toddlers with a bigger vocabulary, anyway. Wink

observer

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 9:15 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Having a dd with many similarities, I too use a similar approach. I may PM you in the future in regard to this, as I very much agree with and admire your parenting approach!

Dd has a ton of personality and I do not want to stifle it at all, just to channel it appropriately. She is constantly pushing her limits and I see that she responds well to a calm but firm approach (even though when she explodes, my insides can be churning!) I bought the book "the explosive child" but have not finished reading it.