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Forum
-> Hobbies, Crafts, and Collections
-> The Imamother Writing Club
little neshamala
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 Wed, Apr 22 2015, 1:02 pm
| amother wrote: | | I haven't found that to be true. |
Are you saying you had a manuscript accepted when you were a "no name"?
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amother
Peach
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 1:28 pm
| little neshamala wrote: | | Are you saying you had a manuscript accepted when you were a "no name"? |
Yes, exactly.
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little neshamala
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 3:49 pm
| amother wrote: | | Yes, exactly. |
thank you. I feel a little encouraged.
and this was one of the mainstream, frum publishers?
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amother
Wheat
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 3:51 pm
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OK. If you don't want my experience, I'm signing off from this thread. My reply was about 3 publishers being a no name. Bye-bye.
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gp2.0
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 3:56 pm
| amother wrote: | | OK. If you don't want my experience, I'm signing off from this thread. My reply was about 3 publishers being a no name. Bye-bye. |
Actually, I was really enjoying your input. (Though if I ever finish my novel I'm going the secular route rather than Jewish route which is why I'm not really posting here but still following out of interest.)
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amother
Peach
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 4:04 pm
| little neshamala wrote: | thank you. I feel a little encouraged.
and this was one of the mainstream, frum publishers? |
Yes. I sent it to 4.
2 of them got back to me relatively quickly - it was not the type of book they publish.
the 3rd made me an offer.
the 4th took much, much longer to get back to me but did express interest (I had already signed with the other publisher at that point, though).
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little neshamala
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 4:08 pm
| amother wrote: | | OK. If you don't want my experience, I'm signing off from this thread. My reply was about 3 publishers being a no name. Bye-bye. |
im so sorry,I didnt mean to offend you. So many helpful people responded, I didn't think it necessary to respond to each one individually; that's why I thanked all who responded in general...if it makes you feel better, my post about assuming that frum publishers accept everyone was a direct response to your very insightful, very helpful, somewhat disheartening reply.
So I do thank you for your input, and I take this opportunity to thank everyone else who's been responding as well.
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little neshamala
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 4:13 pm
| amother wrote: | Yes. I sent it to 4.
2 of them got back to me relatively quickly - it was not the type of book they publish.
the 3rd made me an offer.
the 4th took much, much longer to get back to me but did express interest (I had already signed with the other publisher at that point, though). |
-was this a novel, or a different type of book?
-was it surprising to you that it wasn't the type of book they publish, or was it more of an obvious thing? Could you have come to that conclusion on your own, before writing/submitting to them?
-I assume you sent it out to all the different publishers at once?
sorry to bombard you but I can't help it... 
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amother
Peach
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 4:32 pm
| amother wrote: | | I wasn't known. Two of the publishers said no. One of the explained their refusal by my bad writing, the other didn't bother to explain. I submitted to a third who accepted on terms of self-financing. Which means I covered editing, cover, typeset and print, and let them sell it. For that I'm getting 30% royalties. Happy end but I hate their attitude to writers without whom they wouldn't have anything to sell. |
Listen, I know nothing about your book or your writing, but I do know what it's like on the back-end. On a much smaller scale, but I'm sure it's similar. I deal with website submissions (not books) and it seems like every single person thinks they are a writer. Everyone in their family and all their friends tell them how amazing they are (either because they have no clue and really believe it, or because they think they're doing the person a favor).
The ratio of articles we can use vs. ones we can't is probably 50:1. Can you imagine if we had to give a reason to the 49 we rejected? We would need additional employees just for that! Also, when you start giving reasons, it very often turns into a lot of handholding and a long back and forth conversation. It's just not practical. And really, most people don't want to hear, or can't accept the truth - that their writing is terrible, we couldn't get past the first paragraph and when we forced ourselves to read to the end of the article we still had no idea what they were trying to say. We have a standard polite rejection letter. If the author pushes and pushes for more info, we might give a vague reason.
In terms of past writers getting preference. Here's how I see it. In general, past writers have a direct email address to the editor they worked with this in the past. This means their new submissions will go directly to an editor, rather than to the general mailbox where it will take time to sort things out and delegate what goes to who. Also, a writer who has been published multiple times has proven that they can write well and have interesting things to say or good stories to tell, yes, we might open their email first. BUT, if something comes in that is excellent, we don't care who wrote it. If it's good, it gets published. If it's not good, it doesn't (even if the person has previously been published). Also, the people who try to give all their connections and a list of people they know with the implication that we should publish them because of that - well, I personally read their's last. It gives me a bad taste in my mouth.
Also, regarding taking a long time to get back to you, or not getting back at all. It happens. Most places are understaffed and reading through piles of submissions is not that exciting. Sometimes something gets emailed around for opinions and discussion which takes time, and occasionally there may be a misunderstanding about who is supposed to respond to the author. Unless they say otherwise in their submission guidelines, I think there's nothing wrong with emailing after 2 weeks just to confirm they've received it (if you haven't received confirmation), and after 2-3 months if you haven't heard yes or no, you can check in again.
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little neshamala
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 4:38 pm
| amother wrote: | Listen, I know nothing about your book or your writing, but I do know what it's like on the back-end. On a much smaller scale, but I'm sure it's similar. I deal with website submissions (not books) and it seems like every single person thinks they are a writer. Everyone in their family and all their friends tell them how amazing they are (either because they have no clue and really believe it, or because they think they're doing the person a favor).
The ratio of articles we can use vs. ones we can't is probably 50:1. Can you imagine if we had to give a reason to the 49 we rejected? We would need additional employees just for that! Also, when you start giving reasons, it very often turns into a lot of handholding and a long back and forth conversation. It's just not practical. And really, most people don't want to hear, or can't accept the truth - that their writing is terrible, we couldn't get past the first paragraph and when we forced ourselves to read to the end of the article we still had no idea what they were trying to say. We have a standard polite rejection letter. If the author pushes and pushes for more info, we might give a vague reason.
In terms of past writers getting preference. Here's how I see it. In general, past writers have a direct email address to the editor they worked with this in the past. This means their new submissions will go directly to an editor, rather than to the general mailbox where it will take time to sort things out and delegate what goes to who. Also, a writer who has been published multiple times has proven that they can write well and have interesting things to say or good stories to tell, yes, we might open their email first. BUT, if something comes in that is excellent, we don't care who wrote it. If it's good, it gets published. If it's not good, it doesn't (even if the person has previously been published). Also, the people who try to give all their connections and a list of people they know with the implication that we should publish them because of that - well, I personally read their's last. It gives me a bad taste in my mouth.
Also, regarding taking a long time to get back to you, or not getting back at all. It happens. Most places are understaffed and reading through piles of submissions is not that exciting. Sometimes something gets emailed around for opinions and discussion which takes time, and occasionally there may be a misunderstanding about who is supposed to respond to the author. Unless they say otherwise in their submission guidelines, I think there's nothing wrong with emailing after 2 weeks just to confirm they've received it (if you haven't received confirmation), and after 2-3 months if you haven't heard yes or no, you can check in again. |
so informative. thank you
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amother
Peach
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 4:39 pm
| little neshamala wrote: | -was this a novel, or a different type of book?
-was it surprising to you that it wasn't the type of book they publish, or was it more of an obvious thing? Could you have come to that conclusion on your own, before writing/submitting to them?
-I assume you sent it out to all the different publishers at once?
sorry to bombard you but I can't help it... |
It was a novel but a specific type for a specific age-range. One of them, I thought had similar books, but when they explained that theirs are for a younger crowd, I went back and looked at them again and realized my book would not fit into that category (which I had originally thought it would).
The other one, I was surprised, but their rejection letter was so nice that I wasn't upset. And I later found out that there were major changes going on there at the time, and they really weren't taking that kind of book anymore.
I did sent to all at once. I heard that frum publishers don't mind, although I know that when you publish in the real world you're not supposed to do that. I do plan to venture into the real world with my next book, and I know it will be a very different experience.
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gp2.0
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 5:26 pm
| amother wrote: | Listen, I know nothing about your book or your writing, but I do know what it's like on the back-end. On a much smaller scale, but I'm sure it's similar. I deal with website submissions (not books) and it seems like every single person thinks they are a writer. Everyone in their family and all their friends tell them how amazing they are (either because they have no clue and really believe it, or because they think they're doing the person a favor).
The ratio of articles we can use vs. ones we can't is probably 50:1. Can you imagine if we had to give a reason to the 49 we rejected? We would need additional employees just for that! Also, when you start giving reasons, it very often turns into a lot of handholding and a long back and forth conversation. It's just not practical. And really, most people don't want to hear, or can't accept the truth - that their writing is terrible, we couldn't get past the first paragraph and when we forced ourselves to read to the end of the article we still had no idea what they were trying to say. We have a standard polite rejection letter. If the author pushes and pushes for more info, we might give a vague reason.
In terms of past writers getting preference. Here's how I see it. In general, past writers have a direct email address to the editor they worked with this in the past. This means their new submissions will go directly to an editor, rather than to the general mailbox where it will take time to sort things out and delegate what goes to who. Also, a writer who has been published multiple times has proven that they can write well and have interesting things to say or good stories to tell, yes, we might open their email first. BUT, if something comes in that is excellent, we don't care who wrote it. If it's good, it gets published. If it's not good, it doesn't (even if the person has previously been published). Also, the people who try to give all their connections and a list of people they know with the implication that we should publish them because of that - well, I personally read their's last. It gives me a bad taste in my mouth.
Also, regarding taking a long time to get back to you, or not getting back at all. It happens. Most places are understaffed and reading through piles of submissions is not that exciting. Sometimes something gets emailed around for opinions and discussion which takes time, and occasionally there may be a misunderstanding about who is supposed to respond to the author. Unless they say otherwise in their submission guidelines, I think there's nothing wrong with emailing after 2 weeks just to confirm they've received it (if you haven't received confirmation), and after 2-3 months if you haven't heard yes or no, you can check in again. |
I've heard this before, and it's standard everywhere, but I still think it would be so helpful to add a reason composed of a few words to a form letter. Like:
To our regret, your article/short story/novel does not meet our writing standards.
To our regret, your article/short story/novel is similar to a recently published article.
To our regret, your article/short story/novel would not be appreciated by our readership.
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ruby slippers
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 6:45 pm
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Great thread! Just wondering if one needs to copyright their work before sending it in- how do you prove it was your idea... not that I would think anyone at the publishing company would do something like that but.....
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gp2.0
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Wed, Apr 22 2015, 7:43 pm
| eema1 wrote: | | Great thread! Just wondering if one needs to copyright their work before sending it in- how do you prove it was your idea... not that I would think anyone at the publishing company would do something like that but..... |
No, intellectual property is legally yours without a copyright.
If a publishing company stole work from authors they wouldn't be in business very long. Only send to reputable publishers.
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amother
Wheat
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Thu, Apr 23 2015, 1:46 am
| amother wrote: | Listen, I know nothing about your book or your writing, but I do know what it's like on the back-end. On a much smaller scale, but I'm sure it's similar. I deal with website submissions (not books) and it seems like every single person thinks they are a writer. Everyone in their family and all their friends tell them how amazing they are (either because they have no clue and really believe it, or because they think they're doing the person a favor).
The ratio of articles we can use vs. ones we can't is probably 50:1. Can you imagine if we had to give a reason to the 49 we rejected? We would need additional employees just for that! Also, when you start giving reasons, it very often turns into a lot of handholding and a long back and forth conversation. It's just not practical. And really, most people don't want to hear, or can't accept the truth - that their writing is terrible, we couldn't get past the first paragraph and when we forced ourselves to read to the end of the article we still had no idea what they were trying to say. We have a standard polite rejection letter. If the author pushes and pushes for more info, we might give a vague reason.
In terms of past writers getting preference. Here's how I see it. In general, past writers have a direct email address to the editor they worked with this in the past. This means their new submissions will go directly to an editor, rather than to the general mailbox where it will take time to sort things out and delegate what goes to who. Also, a writer who has been published multiple times has proven that they can write well and have interesting things to say or good stories to tell, yes, we might open their email first. BUT, if something comes in that is excellent, we don't care who wrote it. If it's good, it gets published. If it's not good, it doesn't (even if the person has previously been published). Also, the people who try to give all their connections and a list of people they know with the implication that we should publish them because of that - well, I personally read their's last. It gives me a bad taste in my mouth.
Also, regarding taking a long time to get back to you, or not getting back at all. It happens. Most places are understaffed and reading through piles of submissions is not that exciting. Sometimes something gets emailed around for opinions and discussion which takes time, and occasionally there may be a misunderstanding about who is supposed to respond to the author. Unless they say otherwise in their submission guidelines, I think there's nothing wrong with emailing after 2 weeks just to confirm they've received it (if you haven't received confirmation), and after 2-3 months if you haven't heard yes or no, you can check in again. |
It's not me you were responding now. I said, my novel was accepted by a third publisher. Shall I tell you what happened afterwards what I didn't tell here before? So, the first rejected without explanation. The accepting third didn't know I'd had an encounter with the first and suggested that they sell it. And they did! You know what it means? That they don't read if a person is a no name.
But I see what you wanted you say! It must be a terrible job seen in this way, trying to be polite and sticking to the point at the same time.
More to Little Neshamala. Also be prepared the publishing house would want to edit your text to the point ot being unrecognisable to you. This is what frum publishers often do.
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amother
Wheat
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Thu, Apr 23 2015, 1:50 am
| eema1 wrote: | | Great thread! Just wondering if one needs to copyright their work before sending it in- how do you prove it was your idea... not that I would think anyone at the publishing company would do something like that but..... |
The publisher does it according to your agreement. I suppose it's always money involved that dictates who's going to have copyright. By making it yours you ensure your rights to say you don't want a certain change they're suggesting, you have a say in a number of sold copies, etc. I'm happy I paid for mine to make it my copyright.
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imasoftov
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Sun, Apr 26 2015, 5:42 am
| amother wrote: | | No way. It's lashon hara.. |
Had we tried to create a culture in which abusive business practices (and other sorts of abuse) went on unhindered we could not have done a better job
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ruby slippers
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Fri, May 08 2015, 9:19 am
I have been following this read for a little bit as I wrote my own book- was wondering what kind of cover letter is sent with story to the publisher. Do you explain what age group the intended audience? Do you give background about yourself. Or do you just say- here's my story hope you like it.
Thanks!
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amother
Denim
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Wed, Aug 26 2015, 9:38 pm
| amother wrote: | | I wasn't known. Two of the publishers said no. One of the explained their refusal by my bad writing, the other didn't bother to explain. I submitted to a third who accepted on terms of self-financing. Which means I covered editing, cover, typeset and print, and let them sell it. For that I'm getting 30% royalties. Happy end but I hate their attitude to writers without whom they wouldn't have anything to sell. |
amother wheat- can you give a general idea how much you had to lay out and how much control did you have over the editing?
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amother
Wheat
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Fri, Sep 04 2015, 6:05 am
| amother wrote: | | amother wheat- can you give a general idea how much you had to lay out and how much control did you have over the editing? |
I hope it's still wheat because I'm the amother. I laid out about $10 K all in all. The editing wasn't easy, since they were used to the old model when they can tell the author he's nothing, and has no idea how to write. In the end, all corrections were only those I approved of, b"h.
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