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Why Stay Frum

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amother

Ivory

Sun, Aug 30 2015, 3:23 pm

Hi All!

I'm starting this new blog to counteract all the otd blogs. There's not much on it yet, and I'm no wiz at wordpress, so it's not super professional looking, but I wanted to get it rolling. Feel free to pass it around to anyone who you know is searching, questioning, or just might be interested. (I hope this is not considered an ad, it's not a business and there's no money involved, just a thought and kiruv blog.)

For now it's at https://whystayfrum.wordpress.com/, although I have the domain and hope to switch it one of these days...

sourstix

Sun, Aug 30 2015, 3:53 pm

please change the subject line. experience on this website from such a subject line means someone is going otd. dont meant to criticize or be negagtive. just my experienc here. write something like. why I decided to stay frum. its so much more appealing. and less negatvie.

pause

Sun, Aug 30 2015, 5:56 pm

Your link didn't work for me.

Ilana Tamar

Sun, Aug 30 2015, 6:16 pm

I agree with sourstix. I also interpreted this thread to mean "why bother staying frum?"

youngishbear

Sun, Aug 30 2015, 6:41 pm

pause wrote:

Your link didn't work for me.

It didn't work for me either.

amother

Hotpink

Sun, Aug 30 2015, 7:11 pm

Much hatzlacha. The link works if you go to the menu of the page it takes you to. The link has a comma on the end, that's why it doesn't work.

I read your post about how people go off the derech for emotional reasons and while that's true some of the time, if I went off the derech it would be for purely logical convenience reasons, and because I am disillusioned with what yiddishkeit has become in this century, a rat race about who can be more outwardly frum.

Happens to be the reason I remain frum is for emotional reasons. I don't want to lose relationships and family and community.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Aug 30 2015, 7:37 pm

As one who is definitely "questioning", I found both blog posts to be condescending and lacking any real substance. Very offputting to me.

amother

Beige

Sun, Aug 30 2015, 7:44 pm

amother wrote:

As one who is definitely "questioning", I found both blog posts to be condescending and lacking any real substance. Very offputting to me.

Agree.. I'm sorry.. I'm sure you mean well, but I have to agree

amother

Emerald

Sun, Aug 30 2015, 9:32 pm

OP, this blog post might help you be more authentic

http://www.outoftheorthobox.co......html

MagentaYenta

Sun, Aug 30 2015, 9:42 pm

Talking at people doesn't work. Dialogs where people interact do. If I were questioning, your writing would be off putting to say the least.

oliveoil

Sun, Aug 30 2015, 10:08 pm

I wish I could at least say your blog was good entertainment, but unfortunately it's just plain... blah.

imasoftov

Mon, Aug 31 2015, 1:48 am

You should start to post in the comments section of OTD blogs to generate traffic to your site.

marina

Mon, Aug 31 2015, 1:30 pm

imasoftov wrote:

You should start to post in the comments section of OTD blogs to generate traffic to your site.

this will be very hurtful to you OP, so I do not recommend it

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Aug 31 2015, 2:06 pm

If you feel there are people in need of some warming, offer them food. It's more potent than talk.

Even better, show them how to make the food, so it's not just accepting, passive accepting.

Get some women into your house and give a bread-making class. You can chat about taking challah and anything else, but they will then be listening.

Be sure to eat it with soup after it's made. Some to eat, because work makes an appetite, and some to take home and brag about. You say "come to lunch at my house. We're going to make bread and stuff ourselves with it." Don't be preachy. Let them enjoy and soak up the vibes of a kosher kitchen, the source of heat, light and good.

I don't think people waiver in frumkeit because of philosophical inconsistencies, but because of loneliness. Not sure reading a blog alone with a glowing screen is the thing for them. Keep them company and show ahavas yisroel.

As very little consistent company, over long time, awaits women otd, showing them a way to stay in the marrying world, where you do get lifetime companionship, is potent: show, don't talk.

Lonely frum Jews going otd to get some company is like a cat jumping into a cistern of water on a hot day because it's thirsty. Yes. For a few minutes, it will be a very happy cat. It will get what it needs. But eventually, kitty will drown. Kitty didn't think ahead, and the walls are vertical and slippery.

It's kind of you to want to help.

amother

Ivory

Mon, Aug 31 2015, 2:48 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone, event he harsh ones Smile

The point is to be a dialogue, not to "talk at" anyone, as mentioned in the post. I will definitely talk these comments to heart when working on the next posts.
I thought about posting on otd blogs since that is what compelled me to get started altogether - stumbling upon some of them and seeing this is an arena where people go because it's anonymous and they can get questions answered. Marina, why do you say it will be hurtful? Do you mean people will be obnoxious?
Dolly, thanks for the ideas - I worked in kiruv for many years, but I live in a chareidi city in Israel now, so my options for kiruv with english speakers are more limited.

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Aug 31 2015, 4:35 pm

Marina may mean that if you enter an anti-religious space and advocate for religion, you will be yelled at and scorned. I agree with her. Yes, that might happen.

You might post on those places saying, "I respect that people here have an anti-religious viewpoint, but if you want to discuss these real and serious questions with somebody from the religious point of view, come over to my blog so-and-so. This is my background: ....... My hope is people with questions will stay religious, OK, that's all. I'm not trying to hijack your space. Bye."

Just so you know, your link didn't work.

Frumdoc

Mon, Aug 31 2015, 6:32 pm

If you seriously want to address the "OTD community" (note, I'm not convinced such a thing exists, rather, lots of different Individual's who may share some experiences on and off line) I suggest you don't start by telling them they all have emotional problems and don't have intellectual issues with orthodoxy.

Because many many people, both within and outside orthodox Judaism, have multiple deep philosophical and intellectual issues with basic Torah principles and minutiae of halachic observance.

To deny this is to invalidate these as genuine issues, and will garner you no respect from those who are engaging with these issues, which a large proportion of jews who have left orthodoxy are doing, whether or not these are the original or sole reasons for their rejection of traditional beliefs and practices.

Think about this before you go on with your mission.

zaq

Mon, Aug 31 2015, 7:34 pm

Many people who go OTD are highly intelligent and educated. I would strongly suggest having someone else check your posts for grammatical, spelling and usage errors that are not only distracting but also reflect poorly, if unfairly, on your intelligence, education and fitness for outreach. If you don't have real substance, at least have good form.

sourstix

Mon, Aug 31 2015, 9:09 pm

frum doc I need to address you, hope this isnt going off topic. but I had to deal with a otd relative. and it definitley started as an emotional issue and it went into having intellectual issues too. so they might be intertwined and they might be a separate issue. either/or her writing it the way she did on her blog was in poor taste. from experience its definitely not either or it can be both or just one.

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