8 yr old son, speech therapist dressed sleeveless...advice?

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children

Previous 1 2 3 4 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Slategray

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:12 pm

amother wrote:

All the schools, children's hospitals, hospitals, skilled nursing facilities and schools I've worked in had a sleeves policy. It was also emphasized as appropriate professional attire in grad school.

Where do you work and what do you do? I'm
a PT.

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:14 pm

amother wrote:

Id any day prefer sleeveless dress over my childs therapist showing up in her snood this week. I thought that was rude and disrespectful.

You'd rather a woman be in tznius than wear a hair covering different than yours? I almost only wear snoods even in a professions setting. My sheitels give me headaches. Maybe she had a headache. Please don't judge other women for covering their hair differently than you might b

amother

Rose

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:27 pm

amother wrote:

Where do you work and what do you do? I'm
a PT.

OT, SNF.

amother

Copper

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:31 pm

I am a non chassidish therapist, and this would bother me A LOT. Going sleeveless is totally different than a women wearing pants, or not covering their hair. While the latter two may not be halachically correct, the former is much more provocative. I am genuinely surprised that more women here aren't bothered. However, I would have asked a Rav for guidance, not imamother. It's a risk - benefit analysis, how much does your kid need this therapist, vs. will his ruchniyus be affected by spending time with this therapist - it's different than just seeing random women at the zoo dressed sleeveless.
Also, as a professional, I believe it is not professional to wear sleeveless shirts.

Maya

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:32 pm

I think some people are not understanding the difference between sleeveless and tank tops.

Seas

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:41 pm

Just this morning I heard a shiur by Rabbi Efraim Waxman on sefiras haomer (week 6) where he said in the name of the Chazon Ish who told a mother of she wants her 3yr old son to ever amount to anything she shouldn't take him swimming with her.

An 8yr old boy is so much more impressionable, and you are very right in worrying about destroying his (spiritual) eyes as you fix his (physical) speech. It's hard to see what you can do in a situation where you go to the therapist's place of work, so the only thing that seems feasible is to find a different therapist.

It's worth noting that the Chasam Sofer was once asked a shaalo by a family who had a backward child and they wanted to place him into an institution where there was hope of recovery. The only problem was that at the institution the child would be served non-kosher food.

After discussing the halachic side of it (for which the CS did find reasons to permit it), the CS writes that since Chazal teach us that eating non-kosher food causes the mind to become blocked from understanding torah, "it is preferable the child should be mentally deficient all his life rather than be impure before Hashem."

cnc

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:43 pm

Seas wrote:

This is actually the language they used?

A child that will ever amount to anything?

Backwards child? (What does that mean btw?)

Maya

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:44 pm

cnc wrote:

This is actually the language they used?

A child that will ever amount to anything?

Backwards child? (What does that mean btw?)

They're all BS scare tactics. Anyone can use any language they want.
I just wanna know what part of the child was backwards. His shirt, maybe?

amother

Rose

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:45 pm

Maya wrote:

I think some people are not understanding the difference between sleeveless and tank tops.

Both are inappropriate in a professional setting. However, some people do cross the line into sleeveless and get away with it sometimes (but I have never seen tank tops professionally). Just because people get away with sleeveless, most professionals in health care know it is inappropriate and count on people just not saying anything.

cnc

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:46 pm

Maya wrote:

They're all BS scare tactics. Anyone can use any language they want.
I just wanna know what part of the child was backwards. His shirt, maybe?

I know Rabbi Wachsman and he is very refined so I am just wondering if those are his words or the poster's words...

Seas

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:47 pm

cnc wrote:

This is actually the language they used?

A child that will ever amount to anything?

Backwards child? (What does that mean btw?)

I don't know. I have not seen the tshuva of the CS myself, only heard it quoted several times in shiurim about kashrus.

Seas

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:51 pm

cnc wrote:

I know Rabbi Wachsman and he is very refined so I am just wondering if those are his words or the poster's words...

I don't remember the exact words by Rabbi Waxman but the gist was that if the child was to see un-tznius things he would never become a talmid chacham.

This was quoted in the name of the Chazon Ish.

What I wrote before should have been 'amount to anything in Torah/Yiddishkeit'.

marina

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 8:55 pm

If you're a frum therapist, have you ever been asked by a Muslim client to cover your face or hair? How did or would you respond?

amother

Rose

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 9:09 pm

marina wrote:

If you're a frum therapist, have you ever been asked by a Muslim client to cover your face or hair? How did or would you respond?

I think it is appropriate to ask a therapist to cover what would be generally accepted to be covered in any professional environment in mainstream culture. Thus, asking for sleeves or long pants as opposed to shorts, etc. Would be acceptable. This would apply to both males and females. Asking for something that is clearly outside of the mainstream cultural norms is unacceptable, such as Muslim face coverings or head coverings.

That being said, if I were doing a home visit in a Muslim home and I was respectfully asked to cover, I would definitely consider the request and would not be offended by it. I would decide if it would interfere with my ability to perform my job responsibilities, if it would be a hardship, etc. And I would communicate clearly with my client about my decision. I have been in many situations where I had to learn about my clients cultural preferences And accomodate them. It is part of the job.

marina

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 9:16 pm

amother wrote:

You wrote very eloquently above about needing to respect cultural norms, so I copied it here for you to review.

Quote:

I am going to be the voice of dissent here. First, wearing some type of sleeve is definitely in the realm of professional dress. Sleeveless is considered not professional in many settings. This is as per the dress code in all of the health care and school environments I have worked in as a therapist. Another issue to consider is that therapists are trained to respect clients cultural sensitivities. I think if is brought up in a non threatening way the therapist should be able to respect your cultural sensitivities and accommodate. I know I would rather be told, rather than lose a client and the pay, and potentially many other clients from the same cultural group. The wording that I would be comfortable hearing would be something like this "I hope you will not be offended, but I just wanted to bring to your attention as the weather gets warmer, we are sensitive to the issue of modest dress, especially with our boys. Is there any way you can accommodate this? I would love to continue to bring my son to you since you re doing such great work with him." If the therapist is professional she be able to respond and ask how she can accommodate, and then you can mention the sleeves issue. (She can wear a lab coat or a cardigan when she is seeing your child.)

I am not chassidish, but I would also be bothered by sleeveless with a service provider for my son. IMHO, too much is exposed, including bras and other things that should be covered. There is a reason sleeves are part of the professional dress code in all health care settings.

In light of the above, I hope you would cover up even if the person comes to you, not just you go into the home. The OP is bringing her child to the therapist.

gold21

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 9:18 pm

I find it disturbing that you view your 8 year old as if he's a fully s-xually-aware man. He's an 8 year old. Hilchos yichud dont even apply until hes 9. Why are u doing this to him? Hes a child, let him be. Chassidish children are still children.

(If this post was about a therapist for your 18 year old, I would understand more easily)

Last edited by gold21 on Wed, Jun 01 2016, 9:30 pm; edited 2 times in total

marina

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 9:19 pm

Also just so we can all be on the same page, OP- is this what you're talking about when you say sleeveless?

gold21

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 9:23 pm

Seas wrote:

Nice try, but no dice.
Many boys from less-than-perfect backgrounds grew up to become incredible talmidei chachamim as adults.
Do u need me to name names?

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 9:26 pm

Maya wrote:

I think some people are not understanding the difference between sleeveless and tank tops.

I agree.

In my largely non-Jewish area, the "preppy" style remains in fashion, decade after decade. Imagine a world that looks like the illustrations in an LL Bean or Lands End catalog. Such places exist, and the overall effect is more wholesome than s*xy, sleeveless tops and all.

Similarly, Michelle Obama always looks fabulous in her sleeveless outfits. Dignified, clean-cut, elegant. Not inappropriate at all for a role model for our country.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 9:30 pm

Seas wrote:

[ad hominem attack removed]

Page 3 of 4

Previous 1 2 3 4 Next