Torah's views on hitting your kids for chinuch

amother

Vermilion

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 1:19 am

Never. Never. Never. Please don't.

How can anyone violate their children's bodies, physicality, or dignity like that.

It is not chinuch, it is taking the lazy way out of dealing with your child. You are slapping your child into submission, making him cower in fear and do what you want in the SHORT TERM because he's terrified and doesn't want to be slapped again. Not because you're actually teaching him anything, other than the fact that you are a monster.

Long term - resentment and defiance build up. Since it is all about 'Yiddishkeit' and the reason you're slapping him is because of 'chinuch' and 'torah', he will likely come to hate the Torah and Yiddishkeit since you used it to cause him so much pain.

If you need to slap your kids for 'chinuch' you had better start thinking TODAY about what kind of chinuch you are giving and why it isn't working without having to resort to violating your child by slapping him.

I heard a Rav say - every time you slap your child, start putting away money for another therapy session that he will need to overcome it.

If you say well your parents did it too please go for help for dealing with intergenerational trauma.

Sincerely,

the child of a father who always slapped for 'chinuch', whose favorite passuk was "chosech shivto sone beno". I was not shomer shabbos for a while as a direct result of him slapping me (it usually happened on shabbos when we were all home; I have nothing but bad memories of shabbos at home and not a shred of beauty there) and had to have years of therapy to get over the trauma.

Please. Just don't do it. And don't ever justify it in the name of religion.

heidi

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 1:30 am

Thank you thank you thank you amother vermillion. I am so sorry for your awful childhood-- but thank you for stating so clearly how I feel!
I find a lot of people on this site are so quick to be so empathetic and understanding of everyone that they don't seem to realize that there are some red lines that you just do not cross. No matter what.
I am speaking as a mother of adults and still some young children at home. I am not a particularly patient person. And I admit that each of my kids has gotten hit ONCE in their lifetimes.
I still feel guilty years and years later for each and every incident. I know it was bcz. of my lack of patience that I hit my child and would never dare to excuse it as "chinuch".
Some of my kids have ADHD. Some are more trying than others. I have gone to therapy, once as part of my child's therapy and once just me to learn how to deal with my child. There are solutions other than hitting, for every single situation. But to call hitting chinuch is, in my opinion, inexcusable.

SacN

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 4:06 am

I just want to say that I agree with everything said above.
AND
In a very dangerous situation, such as touching a hot stove/pot of soup, climbing up my window bars, or running into the street, I will, in a thought out, not angry, not painful manner, give my young children a small tap on the fingers.
I believe that when they are too young to understand the concept of danger, this gives them a conditioned negative association with the dangerous activity, and helps keep them safe.
I do this, and immediately hug them and tell them I'm not angry, but it's very very scary to do x.

I know there are those who disagree with even this.
I just wanted to say that my perspective does exist in loving, healthy Torah homes.

m in Israel

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 4:34 am

I strongly reccomend R' Shlomo Wolbe, tz"ls amazing sefer "Zeriah U'Binyan B'Chinuch". There is an English translation, too (Planting and Building: Raising A Jewish Child put out by Feldheim). He discusses extensively how to understand the pasuk of "chosech shivto sonai b'no" and I can't really do it justice in this post, but suffice it to say he does NOT hold that the "shevet" means actual hitting.

But I would like to quote what he holds l'maasah. He quotes the gemarah in kiddushin that discuss if a father hits his son above a certain age he is actually violating the issur of "lifnai iver" because it will likely cause his son to rebel and even hit him back. He says that in today's society where children are weaker and society is more rebellious, this is true for even very young children -- it will lead to them wanting to rebel. So even hitting a very young child (above the age of3) will be assur because of lifnai iver.

Then he talks about the idea of disciplining harshly, and I'll quote some of what he writes directly, even though it will make this post long.

Quote:

If someone tries to crush a child by spanking him, he can hurt the child and his relationship with the child, and when the child grows up he might close himself off from his parents. Then it will be impossible to build a trusting relationship, an open relationship. . .Screaming at a child is as bad as, or perhaps worse than spanking a child.. . .Yes, it is very difficult to control oneself in such a situation. Nonetheless, screaming damages. . .

In the book Minchas Shmuel, the author quotes his rebbe, Rav Chaim Volozhiner saying "Today, harsh language won't be accepted." If we express ourselves harshly, people will not listen to us. People can only hear soft, nice words. "And someone whose nature is not to speak softly and who angers quickly . . .is exempt from the mitzvah of tochacha." . .

The mitzvah of chinuch is anchored in the mitzvah of tochacha. It seems that an angry person is exempt from chinuch. However, one cannot except oneself from chinuch, since ultimately a father remains a father. Therefore, we have no option but to control ourselves. More than 140 years ago Rav Chaim ruled that one should not use harsh language. How much more so today we must avoid harshness, especially with children. Harsh words and actions accomplish nothing. The opposite is true: Harsh words and actions damage. . . What should be done when the child doesn't listen? We must express our demand and re-express it until the child listens. This is the wisdom of chinuch: to know how to speak and when to speak.

He also quotes Rav Eliyahu Lopian, zt"l who raised eleven children many of whom became great roshei yeshiva, who said that when he got older he regretted every spanking he ever gave to his children when they were small. He would tell his talmidim that with children you can only be mechanech in a pleasant way.

amother

Sienna

Wed, Jun 22 2016, 7:48 am

Never. The pasuk can be understood metaphorically. And there is no reason for it. It's lazy, ultimately ineffective, and there are many perfectly effective discipline techniques that don't destroy a child. I have never ever laid a hand on my kids (and I'm NOT a terribly patient person) and I am regularly complemented on how well-behaved they are (and no, they're not easy kids, we work hard to instill respect and discipline). My parents never ever laid a hand on us, and we are all successful adults. We weren't the easiest kids, but my parents worked hard to instill respect and discipline and succeeded. My parents were never hit either, and that was unusual in their generation. Look at our prisons today, an overwhelming majority of inmates were regularly hit as children.