VENT. Why don't parents take care of their children?

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 6:27 pm

amother wrote:

Again, we aren't talking about good parenting decision vs. bad parenting decision. It's a bad parenting decision. Agreed. Some kind of intervention is warranted and really kudos to OP for saying something to the father. But what we are discussing is what kind of intervention, if and when CPS should be called in. CPS is not the right address for every bad parenting decision. If something is explicitly legal sometimes it is hard to argue that it rises to the level of child endangerment at other times when there is no fundamental difference in the degree of theoretical danger.

The automobile accounts for the largest number of accidental deaths in children and adolescents.

What better use for cps than for an issue known to be the largest cause of deaths for children. Since the point of cps is to prevent children from getting hurt and death. See the connection here between cps and death.

All infants and children should use the proper child car seats, booster seats, and seat belts. Whether or not it's legal ina taxi really isn't relevant in this issue and is being used as a red herring here.

Clarissa

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 6:32 pm

sky wrote:

Personally I think its a parent's right to make those decisions.
Its gov. over stepping its bounds to tell parent's how to parent within the law.
Its a dangerous slope for the gov to be allowed to tell you how to parent.

I have no problem letting my 10 year old walk to a local park alone (typically he goes with a group of friends and not alone, but they are all around the same age).
do you really think I should have CPS showing up at my door for that?

Please don't tell me its more dangerous now than it used to be - if you look at crime rates against kids its actually better. You just hear about it more.

Yeah, shame on big government for trying to keep kids from winding up paralyzed, brain damaged or dead. So pushy.

Please don't compare your letting your 10 year old walk outside alone to somebody putting their child in danger by not belting them in.

Ever been in a near-fatal car crash? I have. Thank you, big government, for regulating such things.

sky

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 6:37 pm

amother wrote:

It was a 10 year old and a 6 year old, which is very different than a few 10 year olds. And against Maryland law, since the six year old can not be supervised by the ten year old according to the law.

And they were dropped off so 4 and told to be home by six

If I chose to send my 6 year old that is my choice. I'm very against the government getting involved in family business unless there is obvious neglect.
I may choose not to send my 6 year old with my 10 year old, but both my kids are very responsible and I could see why someone would think it is okay - and I really don't have any issues with it.

I think legally a 13 year old can babysit siblings at home. Some 1o year olds are much more mature than some 13 year olds. A parent should be able to make that decision.

Maryland babysitting law:

Quote:

Under Maryland law, a child must be at least eight years old to be left alone in a house or car. State law also says a child must be at least 13 years old to baby-sit another child. Generally, it is left up to the parent to decide whether a child who is at least eight is mature enough to be home alone.

The law in MD was very loose, it covered being home, not out, and in the end was not able to be applied to this case (based on what I remember).

In some countries it is common to leave a sleeping baby outside to sleep in sub zero temperature (Iceland) or in its carriage outside while in a restaurant (Denmark).so it can also be cultural.

I WOULD NEVER DO THIS AND DON"T SUGGEST DOING SO - before you call CPS on me.

Clarissa wrote:

Please don't compare your letting your 10 year old walk outside alone to somebody putting their child in danger by not belting them in.

Your right. I'm going way off topic based on a poster who believed it was correct to punish the parents who let their children walk alone.

Last edited by sky on Thu, Jul 14 2016, 6:42 pm; edited 3 times in total

flowerpower

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 6:42 pm

If it's a constant thing then it's a different story. If it happened one time, I wouldn't judge yet. Nopes. Kids can do scary things. That is why they have many angels protecting them. Even the best parents can sometimes have something scary happen to their child. A very loving and amazing family had a story where the 2 year old managed to unlock all locks in their house in the middle of the night and take a stroll. Of course they installed special locks after that is really toddler proof and 5 years later they are still traumatized. If you still don't get what I am trying to bring out then it's a lost case. Have a good one. And pray that since you are a perfect parent nothing ever happens to your perfect kids.

amother

Aubergine

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 6:49 pm

I guess I have a different definition of "clear and present danger."

I'd call police if a father refused to strap in kids in his car.

I'd call CPS if I had reason to suspect abuse in a neighbor.

I would call a Rav first about something that appeared to be neglect, but if I saw the toddler off down the street more than once, I'd lean towards calling CPS.

But parenting decisions? I know that 6 seems young, but my current almost 6 year old is super-mature and trustworthy, more so in many ways than my 7.5 year old, and probably equal to my 9 year old.

I wouldn't send her to the park herself, but theoretically would with my 10, if I wasn't so worried about CPS being called by "considerate" neighbors.

Baby napping in stroller outside? We don't live in an area with foxes. The location of the stroller is nowhere near the street. I can see the baby through the window. I am going in and out.

Helicopter parenting hasn't led to dramatically better outcomes.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 7:34 pm

amother wrote:

1) All of you people who are really quick to call CPS; do you really know that is safer?

I have a parent who was taken out of the home (which was, in fact, extremely physically abusive) and spent a few years in foster care. If you think that foster care is a good place for a child, you don't know very much about the foster care system. And I have known people more recently in the foster care system (and anyone who cares to can read the statistics) and nothing has changed since then. The emotional scars that this person has from a few years in the foster care experience are much, much worse than those from many years of living in an abusive home. I am sure that there are cases when it is better but if it's a case of neglect and not pro active abuse I would think really long and hard before calling.

2) in most states CPS takes the children first while they investigate. If they find no abuse, then they return the children. The takes a minimum of days but can often take months.

Stop and imagine for a minute what would happen to your children if they were forced to spend a week with complete strangers and not allowed to see you at all. These strangers are likely not Jewish, definitely don't know their allergies, habits, hot buttons, etc. Depending on your child's age, they might not know they are ever seeing you or understand what is happening. Your girls may be expected to take off their 'repressive' modest clothing and may not feel comfortable about showing their bodies. They will be interviewed by strangers asking invasive questions, and examined and poked by strange doctors and you won't be there to reassure them. They will be expected to eat non-kosher food and depending on how much 'frum speak' you speak at home, they may not be understood when they talk.

If CPS finds nothing, your kids will always feel that they can be suddenly snatched away and put in a strange environment. You will always look over your shoulder and fear what your neighbors are thinking of you and how your parenting looks. If your toddler throws a tantrum, you will fear that someone thinks you hit the child. And once someone has called on you once, you will be under scrutiny forever and if someone calls on you again it will be much harder to get your children back.

Now I ask you; is what you are seeing really worse then that would be? Is there really no alternative?

How many of you don't want a single payer health are system because 'the gov't is incompetent and can't handle anything' but are quick to decide that the government is a better parent than your neighbor?

Truly.

All those people who would are so flippant about calling CPS don't have a real clear idea of what really happens "on the ground," rather, a general idea of what they think CPS SHOULD do. I know. Even if CPS "just" mandates parenting classes, the parents are subject to constant oversight and supervision, and any little slipup can lead very quickly to child removal. The kids are questioned by social workers for months running - and someone, somewhere, will give the "wrong" answer even under the best circumstances and in the situation of loving parents.

You people just don't know. You have no clue. CPS is not what you think it is. My bracha is, you should never have a clue.