"Protecting" a child from your spouse

amother

Sienna

Sun, Sep 11 2016, 10:58 pm

DH and I have different parenting styles. He is some times and in some ways an awesome parent and he is sometimes...impatient and short tempered and harsh, in my opinion.

If/when he scolds a child excessively or unfairly, what is the best way to handle it? He will not take well to my saying anything right then (or possibly ever) but it breaks my heart to see my kids (occasionally) treated that way. I know parents are supposed to show a united front but is it bad for me to afterwards privately say to the child something like "I'm sorry you were reprimanded for that, you didn't deserve that scolding...?" He would be upset if he ever found out (I'd be undermining him) but I'm okay with that.

As far as DH hearing what I'm saying, I've tried that route and it just won't work. Yes, we are in therapy and I am considering leaving (my children will be devastated) but until then-how do I minimize the damage?

He is not emotionally abusive in the sense of saying negative things to them or putting them down, he just can have unrealistic or unfair expectations and can scold (and occasionally punish) more harshly than I feel the situation warrants.

Any advice greatly appreciated

amother

Natural

Sun, Sep 11 2016, 11:06 pm

What do you mean by punish?

Try to think of it like this.

Are you a weak person or a strong person? Lazy or proactive? This is a test about YOUR middot as much as it is about what is right for the child. If you are the type of person who is always angrily arguing at other people 's decisions, then this may be a time to keep quiet.

If, on the other hand, (as I suspect, but I may be projecting) you are a meek person who finds it hard to stand up to abusive authority figures, this may be Hashem's way of calling you to action.

amother

Sienna

Sun, Sep 11 2016, 11:16 pm

amother wrote:

I'll give you two (recent) examples-

We're about to go bowling. One kid (13) makes mild negative remark about how annoying his younger sister is. DH gives a 20 minute lecture and then says "fine, if you don't want to go, if you're going to kvetch, we won't go, let's forget about the trip, we're staying home." My kids definitely fight, complain, etc, but no more than what is age appropriate and would be expected from any kids!

We're driving on the highway and one kid too many voices complaints about something or another. He screeches to a halt, pulls over to the shoulder and says "we're not continuing unless I know everyone will stop kvetching etc.". The duration of the car ride is made in a miserable silence.

In both of the examples the kids clearly could have behaved better but his reaction was extreme (and in one case, scary). The only ones I can think of right now both involved kids kvetching which is definitely something he takes issue with but there are other times he overreact, I just can't think of them right now. He's also the type that had a hard time dealing with anything when he's tired/hungry/etc (as we all are I guess but he's much worse) and sometimes he's just in a mood that anything will set him off and we all know to stay away...

Other times his mood is great and he is a patient and loving and kind and fun father (which is I guess one of the reasons my kids will be devastated if/when I leave him)...

I don't think I am particularly strong or meek (I guess in my interactions with him, meek) but in any event, what is the action Hashem is calling me to do here (that's kinda what my post is asking-what should I be doing?!!?)

amother

Sienna

Sun, Sep 11 2016, 11:21 pm

amother wrote:

The best thing would be to discuss this with your therapist/marriage counselor.

Also I'm not sure how horribly abusive he is but you have to consider whether you really are protecting your children by leaving him and raising them as a single parent. Protecting them from what? Do you plan on preventing him from having custody?

I'm not leaving him specifically to protect my children from him (I'm not sure where I said that) and my question is how to protect them from him NOW (until I leave him).

(I don't plan on preventing him from having custody but I don't think he'll want much-they are seriously too much for him and he knows it. They are wonderful, normal, delicious kids BTW...)

amother

Natural

Sun, Sep 11 2016, 11:25 pm

amother wrote:

.....

I don't think I am particularly strong or meek (I guess in my interactions with him, meek) but in any event, what is the action Hashem is calling me to do here (that's kinda what my post is asking-what should I be doing?!!?)

From what you wrote, you MUST protect your kids. How to do that? Other people will advise you better than me. But as I see it as an outsider this is about you needing to have the courage to stand up for what is right, even and ESPECIALLY in the presence of your husband. It's about you and your meekness, the way I see ot.

(I edited the part I was quoting from ops post to make it clearer what I was respond to)

amother

Natural

Sun, Sep 11 2016, 11:58 pm

amother wrote:

Neither of the situations you describe require "protecting" the kids. He lost patience, big deal. Most parents do occasionally.

This is going to sound odd but I agree with this, despite what I wrote above. But I had things like this & then the feeling of unease that you describe...... And then things spiralled totally out of control. if you are meek with him you need to learning to stand up for your kids and yourself

amother

Forestgreen

Mon, Sep 12 2016, 12:29 am

Whenever an adult behaves badly we can explain that the adult is still working of the midda of... kaas, savlanus, etc. And point out and validate how painful a weakness in that area is for everyone else and that person too, and that's why we have to work on the midda for ourselves. And that the adult loves us and if they could, they would make the bad midda go away immediately.

I have behaved like your husband. I am working on it. I love my family, and if I could make the impatience and quick temper go away overnight I would.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Sep 12 2016, 1:45 am

amother wrote:

Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis used to say divorce is exchanging one set of problems with another

This is true, but some problems are better than others. I'd rather be poor and happy, than financially secure and miserable, for example.

I don't know enough about OP's situation to offer advice. Everyone has to judge for themselves when it's time to change sets of problems, or to learn to make peace with the problems you have.

seeker

Mon, Sep 12 2016, 1:53 am

amother wrote:

This.

It could be that you picked the wrong examples to share, but neither of them sounds so abusive that the kids need to be "protected" from their father. Granted it's not the most pleasant parenting and these kinds of things could leave you with bad memories. But if you can be empathetic and stabilizing, rather than defensive and divisive, it will help everyone emerge more healthy.

black sheep

Mon, Sep 12 2016, 3:13 am

your instincts tell you that your kids need protecting from his anger, and trust that. protect them.
the best thing to do is to speak up right there and then and in front of him and the kids. but it sounds like you don't feel empowered to do this. so the next best step is to speak to the kids privately about it. yes, undermine his parenting. tell them you are sorry for the way their father treated them earlier that day, and that you are working in therapy to help him change his ways. even tell them that you are sorry you aren't strong enough to speak up in front of him, but that would be the right thing to do, and you are sorry you are trying to avoid more anger instead of protecting them in the moment. tell them they didn't deserve to be treated that way. tell them they deserve love, not harsh words. tell them you love them no matter what.

and bring it up in therapy. as many times as necessary. even if you leave him, he will still be their parent and will spend time with them, alone and without you. and as their mother, your job is to protect them from this. so keep at it in therapy.

it's a difficult job, but you can do it. even the slightest change you create can save your kids in the long term. keep at it.

amother

Pink

Mon, Sep 12 2016, 6:38 am

I had to check the OP again to make sure she wasn't me. Some of my kids are already older, and I have seen the anxiety that develops from the need to be close to perfect. They don't know when simply grumbling about something will get them a reaction that's really disproportional. Nobody likes to be yelled at in that extreme may, and they start to get upset about small mistakes they make in school too, etc, even if dh wouldn't react to them.

And while my dh has gotten a lot better, he's still a bit unpredictable with it- it tends to happen when he's already upset (but they don't usually know that) or on a hot button issue.

amother

Pink

Mon, Sep 12 2016, 6:47 am

Adding that...

I think a lot of the ultimate outcome, though, depends on dh's willingness to apologize to the kids later and tell them he should not have reacted that way. They need to learn it's wrong, even if they will still be afraid of it happening. I find dh regularly initially reluctant to do this, because he fears it will diminish his authority with them in the future.

Black sheep, speaking up then and there can produce difficult results. If dh had already lost his temper, he often will not react well to being contradicted in front of the kids, and will turn his rhetoric on his wife, which is even scarier for the kids even if I know it will pass within minutes. Sometimes I do it anyway, because that particular incident seems bad enough for the child, but it rarely ends well. It's hard, because conventional wisdom tells us not to contradict so we don't confuse the children and for the sake of the husband (think "surrendered wife"). Some husbands need to be contradicted, but it still has the same negative effects take on the kids and marriage.

imasinger

Mon, Sep 12 2016, 7:18 am

I don't feel like I have enough information to give advice here.

The two instances described do not sound terrible. If that's as bad as it gets, then I would hesitate to call him abusive. Particularly given the circumstance of a looming divorce, which probably has the guy not exactly at his best. It's a time when neither parent is truly calm, and emotional reactivity goes through the roof. Kids feel it, too, and they can act out more because of it. And even OP can be contributing to the issue, by demeanor that implicitly or explicitly tells the DH that she sees him as a complete jerk.

But they could be part of a more ominous picture. We just don't know enough. How scared were the kids by his yelling at them?

I agree with the poster who suggested discussing this issue in therapy.

Whether the two of you stay married or end up separating, it's in the best interests of everyone to have a consistent parenting policy. That doesn't mean that each of you are identical. It means that you give each other some space, but also have clearly defined limits and consequences.

Yelling is a last resort. Finding better means of getting what he wants will make DH and everyone else a lot happier. Hopefully, the therapist can help with this.