Feeling disconnected on simchas torah...

SixOfWands

Mon, Oct 31 2016, 5:09 pm

amother wrote:

If the Torah isn't a physical body then you shouldn't need to hold anything to trully celebrate the Torah.

If the Torah isn't a physical body, why do you care if a woman wants to dance with the scroll that you don't think is really the Torah?

amother

Chocolate

Mon, Oct 31 2016, 7:15 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

If the Torah isn't a physical body, why do you care if a woman wants to dance with the scroll that you don't think is really the Torah?

Because I agree that a Torah scroll is holy and therefore it bothers me that ladies would be using it in the wrong way.

Yes the Torah is written inside the Sefer Torah, but if you live a life that fully embraces the Torah then you wouldn't feel a need to hold the tangible in order to celebrate the Torah which should be all encompassing in our lives. Yes, the men hold the tangible, but that is because that is what they are directed to do. And our lives have to be governed by the Torah's directives, not our own feelings.

Simchat Torah is an auspicous time. The time of the aliyos between the hakafos is a special time for davening. And ladies doing this instead is making light of the day instead of sanctifying it.

amother

Lavender

Mon, Oct 31 2016, 10:57 pm

Marion wrote:

(Your analogy of not going because you can't eat the food is not a good one; no one goes to a wedding just for the food. But you'd be pretty disappointed to go and not get close enough to the bride to wish her even a mazel tov.)

I don't know about that. Now that it's my friends' kids who are getting married, I go for the sake of the parents. Often I barely know the daughter, and if my friends are parents of the chosson, I don't know the kallah at all and couldn't really care less if I don't get close enough to wish her mazal tov. But I'd be pretty disappointed if I missed the smorg--which has happened more than once.

zaq

Mon, Oct 31 2016, 10:59 pm

amother wrote:

Because I agree that a Torah scroll is holy and therefore it bothers me that ladies would be using it in the wrong way.

.

Using it the wrong way? By making it the center of their attention and dancing with it in religious ecstasy as if it were a bride? How is this "using it the wrong way"? They're not posing with it for a lipstick ad, for crying out loud.

tichellady

Thu, Nov 03 2016, 7:08 pm

amother wrote:

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/482238/women-and-hakafos.html

My problem with the article is he doesn't acknowledge that simchat Torah is a rather innovative holiday, and the traditions of the day have been evolving throughout time. It is a holiday of new practices that were gradually added (hakafos, universal Aliyah's, Chasan Torah, dancing,45,hWe don't look down on the men before the 12th century who didn't get aliyot on simchat Torah just like we don't look down on the women of the past who didn't participate in the dancing of the day ( and I'm not sure we actually know how women used to celebrate the holiday . There definitely were prayer groups for women in medieval Europe and whose to say how they celebrated simchat simchat Torah?)Customs evolve in different times and what women (and men) decide to do does impact Jewish law as we can see with the laws of niddah, candelighting and the customs of simchat Torah day itself!

Furthermore, I have heard that the Jewish women of morocco did dance with the Torah so this would make it a not so new thing..