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Forum
-> Parenting our children
-> Preschoolers
amother
Navy
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Sun, Jan 29 2017, 6:43 pm
My DD is 4 and totally understands the basics of keeping shabbos. She tries to follow and listen but sometimes I see it's just hard on her. I don't want her to have negative associations with being shomer shabbos. Is it bad to pretend not to notice if she does something with one of her toys, etc. once in a while. She is usually good, I just feel bad to admonish her when she does something once in a while. Thoughts?
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Davida
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Sun, Jan 29 2017, 6:48 pm
Totally fine to ignore in my opinion. It's nice she understands and nice she wants to do good but it's normal for a kid to have a hard time not touching a muktzah toy etc. If you wanna help her, you can separate the toys before shabbos and put away the muktzah ones. Also the idea of admonishing to me wouldn't start before way later, reminding maybe?!
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ectomorph
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Sun, Jan 29 2017, 6:58 pm
Agree to ignore. She'll grow out of it before you know it.
Can you buy her a special toy for Shabbat?
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esuss
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Sun, Jan 29 2017, 7:42 pm
I agree with the above posters. If you take it away once she is playing with it she will have negative associations with Shabbos. I would ask her before Shabbos to help put away muktzeh toys and take out Shabbos toys. But if she did play with it on Shabbos just ignore it. I believe this is ok to do until 6 yrs old.
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amother
Cobalt
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Mon, Jan 30 2017, 11:47 am
We started gentle enforcement at age 3 - when our daughter herself showed she understood the concept. But very gentle.
First of all, we took the responsibility of putting all the muktzah stuff high up before shabbos. We even sometimes had our daughter help so she could internalize the idea. Tape the lgith switches too.
Obviously, sometimes we forgot or missed a toy or item or light switch here or there, and she found it on shabbos. We would then remind her that it is muktzah, and ask her where she would like to put it until the end of shabbos, and she could play with it then (and we let her turn the light switches on and off as soon as shabbos is over). Offer a treat or a special game or book with mommy if she is willign to leave it - we want her associations with keeping shabbos to be good.
We never yell or scold or punish, we just gently encourage her, and this usually works. And if she plays with the toy for an extra 5 minutes while we are convincing her, than so be it, because she puts it down of her own free will at the end.
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amother
Brunette
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Mon, Jan 30 2017, 12:04 pm
I would ignore at that age. We do start enforcing muktzah from 4 however we pretend not to notice until 6.
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amother
Hotpink
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Mon, Jan 30 2017, 5:24 pm
amother wrote: | I would ignore at that age. We do start enforcing muktzah from 4 however we pretend not to notice until 6. |
You should ask your LOR. Most Rabbonim say not to wait until age 6.
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amother
Tangerine
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Mon, Jan 30 2017, 6:49 pm
Whatever your rav holds. I know some that start as soon as the kid is talking-2 years old. And I know some hold till 3-4 you have to do according to minhag of your community.
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TeachersNotebook
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Mon, Jan 30 2017, 10:04 pm
amother wrote: | Whatever your rav holds. I know some that start as soon as the kid is talking-2 years old. And I know some hold till 3-4 you have to do according to minhag of your community. |
Is it a community minhag thing, or is it according to the personal development of your own kid?
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amother
Cobalt
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Mon, Jan 30 2017, 11:00 pm
I think it should be according to the kid. We only started at 3 because our dd was ready.
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behappy2
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Mon, Jan 30 2017, 11:52 pm
I let my son know from when he was 2 or 3 that mommy doesnt do certain things on shabbos. At around 4 he started wanting to be like mommy and showed some self control. I never force him. He is 6 and for the most part is very careful. I took his cue while always enco6raging. If it was hard for him I would tell him that it was OK to play with it and when he will be big he will stop. I wanted him to view himself as a shomer shabbos and feel successful and have positive feelings about it. Keeping shabbos with all its details is hard. It goes way beyond playing with muktzah toys (my son loves playing with twigs and dirt and stones and than there is all the melachos and muktzah etc...)
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essie14
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 12:17 am
amother wrote: | We started gentle enforcement at age 3 - when our daughter herself showed she understood the concept. But very gentle.
First of all, we took the responsibility of putting all the muktzah stuff high up before shabbos. We even sometimes had our daughter help so she could internalize the idea. Tape the lgith switches too.
Obviously, sometimes we forgot or missed a toy or item or light switch here or there, and she found it on shabbos. We would then remind her that it is muktzah, and ask her where she would like to put it until the end of shabbos, and she could play with it then (and we let her turn the light switches on and off as soon as shabbos is over). Offer a treat or a special game or book with mommy if she is willign to leave it - we want her associations with keeping shabbos to be good.
We never yell or scold or punish, we just gently encourage her, and this usually works. And if she plays with the toy for an extra 5 minutes while we are convincing her, than so be it, because she puts it down of her own free will at the end. |
I like this a lot.
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miami85
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Tue, Jan 31 2017, 6:15 am
I think one thing you have to keep in perspective is that "muktza" is d'rabanan, whereas other melachos are d'oraisa--coloring, turning on lights, even sorting! While informing a child that something is not an appropriate Shabbos toy/activity, keep in developmental perspective that until a child 1) Understands the "day of the week" concept or 2)is in school, then being strict about muktza may not be getting you anywhere. "Gil chinuch" isn't until around 9 years old. I'm not saying you should be permissive about it, but not to go crazy about it until the child has a better understanding of the beauty of Shabbos and that "resting" is enjoyable, being too strict may give a child the wrong idea about Shabbos.
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