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Yeshiva tuition assistance
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amother




Blush


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 3:27 pm
What is a reasonable amount of financial aid to request for day school? Does it go by a certain percentage of salary that you're expected to pay for school tuition?

Are you judged more harshly for being a sahm? Given our current situation, we don't know if we could pay more than about half the tuition amount!
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amother




Oak


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 3:41 pm
The sooner you speak to the school to make arrangements, the better. Different schools have different policies, so I can't tell you what your experience will be.

No one wants to deny a child a Jewish education, but remember that when you ask for tuition assistance, you are asking for tzedaka money. Tuition committees want to spend community tzedaka money as wisely as possible. It's a tough balancing act for everyone involved.
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amother




Blush


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 4:07 pm
It makes me feel really uncomfortable to think of it as taking tzedaka money. Dh and I will most likely never have salaries that will make it possible to pay full tuition. I like to think schools know they will always have families like that and take it into account in all their budgeting. I.e. full tuition from others families and other funds make it possible for lower earning families to send their kids there.

I'm pretty certain that anyone in our earning range is asking for assistance but it seems they want you to say what you can afford. I don't know what is reasonable.

It's so impossible. I want to be fair but of course there's so so many expenses to think about.
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SplitPea









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 4:24 pm
But it IS tzdaka $

Unless your school charges above what it costs to educate your child and your scholarship brings your tuition down to only what is costs to educate your child and no more than almost every single scholarship will be tzdaka.

Those "other funds" the school gets to cover lesser tuitions is TZDAKA.

It's something people need to think about when planning a vacation, buying a house, getting new clothing etc "we are currently taking tzdaka what can we cut so we won't be taking tzdaka any longer" or you know just keep taking tzdaka and embrace it.

Even if you don't "like to think of it that way" it's still that way. It's not like you are getting a tax break or something someone gave their tzdaka to the school and the school is using that $$$ to pay to educate your child
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amother




Amethyst


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 4:32 pm
SplitPea wrote:
But it IS tzdaka $

Unless your school charges above what it costs to educate your child and your scholarship brings your tuition down to only what is costs to educate your child and no more than almost every single scholarship will be tzdaka.

Those "other funds" the school gets to cover lesser tuitions is TZDAKA.

It's something people need to think about when planning a vacation, buying a house, getting new clothing etc "we are currently taking tzdaka what can we cut so we won't be taking tzdaka any longer" or you know just keep taking tzdaka and embrace it.

Even if you don't "like to think of it that way" it's still that way. It's not like you are getting a tax break or something someone gave their tzdaka to the school and the school is using that $$$ to pay to educate your child


Yeshiva tuitions are not considered optional if you are frum and want your child to have a good Jewish education.

We are also encouraged, for religious reasons, to have many kids, and not to wait until there's money in the bank. The total tuition cost to a family of four kids earning an average middle class income can easily total half their pre-tax earnings.

Now saying they can never save, or buy new clothing, or get out of a rental apt. and start to build some equity for their future, because they're *only* paying $30,000 per year when they owe $45,000, seems unreasonable.

There's a lack of fairness in this equation.
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Squishy









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 4:42 pm
amother wrote:
Yeshiva tuitions are not considered optional if you are frum and want your child to have a good Jewish education.

We are also encouraged, for religious reasons, to have many kids, and not to wait until there's money in the bank. The total tuition cost to a family of four kids earning an average middle class income can easily total half their pre-tax earnings.

Now saying they can never save, or buy new clothing, or get out of a rental apt. and start to build some equity for their future, because they're *only* paying $30,000 per year when they owe $45,000, seems unreasonable.

There's a lack of fairness in this equation.


No, but there is a lack of fairness when another family can't save or buy new clothing or get out of a rental apartment or build equality for their future because they are paying other people's kids' tuitions.
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octopus









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 4:49 pm
Squishy wrote:
No, but there is a lack of fairness when another family can't save or buy new clothing or get out of a rental apartment or build equality for their future because they are paying other people's kids' tuitions.


Don't worry. Your full tuition that you are paying is not covering someone else's. All the yeshivas love to say that full tuition doesn't really cover the cost of running a school. Schools have donors (hopefully) that cover the cost for scholarships.
And before posters bite my head off, I pay full tuition for ALL of my kids. I would never go in to the "not fair" argument. I'm not two years old. Most families that ask for a break, really need it. Are there a few rotten apples? I'm sure there are. But it's not my din v'cheshbon to make.
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amother




Forestgreen


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 4:52 pm
Vacation is a luxury. However, owning a home is not something I would say is always a luxury. In my area rent is drastically higher than a mortgage. What I'm paying for my mortgage, taxes, maintenance... is less than half of the going rent. We're talking about livable condition, not modern and newly renovated. The amount saved on rent that first year, you repay a down payment loan, and then for life, your monthly payments will be lower. You may need one year of a larger tuition break, but going forward you may be able to pay full or need a small discount.

Waiting for tomatoes to be thrown my way Shooting Arrow

- I say this as a former administrator.
(I gave tuition discounts to those that needed) including homeowners.
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Squishy









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 4:59 pm
octopus wrote:
Don't worry. Your full tuition that you are paying is not covering someone else's. All the yeshivas love to say that full tuition doesn't really cover the cost of running a school. Schools have donors (hopefully) that cover the cost for scholarships.
And before posters bite my head off, I pay full tuition for ALL of my kids. I would never go in to the "not fair" argument. I'm not two years old. Most families that ask for a break, really need it. Are there a few rotten apples? I'm sure there are. But it's not my din v'cheshbon to make.


Lack of fairness argument wasn't introduced by me.

I have parsed the numbers and spoken to the financial authorities of a number of schools. I have looked at the documents filed with the U.S. government. You are dead wrong on the schools I have dealt with. Perhaps your schools use a different model. Full tuition is twice the cost of educating a pupil.

The unfairness argument comes into play when questions of wants become burdens to the other parents. When there is a very large luxurious life style the parent population has and 3/4 claim tuition assistance need, there is a transfer of assets that is unfair, or to use a bigger than a two year old word, inequitable.

Why should I have to support Florida vacations, luxury cars, and designer handbags for girls?
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amother




Oak


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 5:01 pm
octopus wrote:
Don't worry. Your full tuition that you are paying is not covering someone else's. All the yeshivas love to say that full tuition doesn't really cover the cost of running a school. Schools have donors (hopefully) that cover the cost for scholarships.


Full tuition doesn't necessarily cover the yearly budget, but many schools do in fact charge more than it costs to educate each child. (And the school should tell you what their costs are.) It's the easiest way to cover at least some of the shortfall.

Those donors you speak of are giving tzedaka. If everyone paid the full cost of education, the money could go to another worthy cause. Obviously, there will always be families that can't pay, but if the majority are counting on a few rich families, there's trouble ahead.
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Squishy









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 6:07 pm
amother wrote:
What is a reasonable amount of financial aid to request for day school? Does it go by a certain percentage of salary that you're expected to pay for school tuition?

Are you judged more harshly for being a sahm? Given our current situation, we don't know if we could pay more than about half the tuition amount!


I know in certain schools in Monsey, you are not judged for being a SAHM mom. I heard many crazy suggestions to raise money to pay the schools' tuitions, but it wasn't suggested a SAHM go to work.

I think this may be protected by halacha or the vaad some how.
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LittleDucky









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 7:19 pm
Since it is tzeddakah is there a way you can increase your family's financial stability? There are times when being a SAHM is financially smart but even if this is the situation, is there a way to decrease your costs of living? Even if it only means you need to use less tzeddakah- which is quite admirable to do. There are situations where we need to accept tzeddakah but using less (especially if difficult) should be commended.
I have written here about couponing. Takes time but saving 50% or more on groceries, diapers, cleaning supplies... Is real money in your pocket!!
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amother




Seafoam


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 8:35 pm
amother wrote:
Vacation is a luxury. However, owning a home is not something I would say is always a luxury. In my area rent is drastically higher than a mortgage. What I'm paying for my mortgage, taxes, maintenance... is less than half of the going rent. We're talking about livable condition, not modern and newly renovated. The amount saved on rent that first year, you repay a down payment loan, and then for life, your monthly payments will be lower. You may need one year of a larger tuition break, but going forward you may be able to pay full or need a small discount.

Waiting for tomatoes to be thrown my way Shooting Arrow

- I say this as a former administrator.
(I gave tuition discounts to those that needed) including homeowners.


I agree. But I live in an area where the standard of living in is a 6 bedroom 3500 sq ft home with a study, play room, living room, dining room, designer kitchen, breakfast knook, 3 - 4 full baths and 1/2 bath. Many cannot afford the monthly payments but getting less space is considered a waste.
Most can afford it before tuition, but then when tuition starts they realize monthly payments plus tuition isn't doable.
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amother




Blush


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 9:05 pm
You make a fair point and I do understand. However it doesn't change my financial reality. It's not like I want to be on the receiving end... I happen to live in an area with very affluent people. We live quite modestly and I like it that way. But in any case I wish I knew how much I'm expected to pay because as I said we have so many other expenses to worry about too.

SplitPea wrote:
But it IS tzdaka $

Unless your school charges above what it costs to educate your child and your scholarship brings your tuition down to only what is costs to educate your child and no more than almost every single scholarship will be tzdaka.

Those "other funds" the school gets to cover lesser tuitions is TZDAKA.

It's something people need to think about when planning a vacation, buying a house, getting new clothing etc "we are currently taking tzdaka what can we cut so we won't be taking tzdaka any longer" or you know just keep taking tzdaka and embrace it.

Even if you don't "like to think of it that way" it's still that way. It's not like you are getting a tax break or something someone gave their tzdaka to the school and the school is using that $$$ to pay to educate your child
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LittleDucky









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 9:48 pm
No one can answer that except the tuition committee. You are expected to pay the full tuition. What reduced tzeddakah rate they might give you is up to them.

If your area is affluent, while you might be living modestly it might only be modest as compared to your community. Not as compared to another, albeit poorer, community. Is there a way to take a tough look at your way of life and scrutinize where cutbacks and limits can be made? It's really hard. We recently paid our tuition bill for the fall and realized we will have to cut back (once we recovered from our sticker shock).
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amother




Seashell


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 9:54 pm
You don't mention where you live. I live in a large frum community outside of NY/NJ. Close friends were nicely told by tuition committee that the wife needed to go find a job since husband was in a low paying job and they weren't able to pay much. So she did.
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octopus









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 10:58 pm
Outside of nyc, tuitions are astronomical. I live in the nyc area, and send to non-affluent schools where my kids' education are bare bones. I pay out of pocket to supplement my kids lack of whatever they aren't getting from school. And it still comes out cheaper than the exorbitant tuitions I know ppl are paying in the monsey/nj/five towns area. I know that I am not sending to schools that are charging more than the cost to educate my child. I also know that my kids' teachers are getting paid bobkis.
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amother




Coral


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 11:05 pm
octopus wrote:
Outside of nyc, tuitions are astronomical. I live in the nyc area, and send to non-affluent schools where my kids' education are bare bones. I pay out of pocket to supplement my kids lack of whatever they aren't getting from school. And it still comes out cheaper than the exorbitant tuitions I know ppl are paying in the monsey/nj/five towns area. I know that I am not sending to schools that are charging more than the cost to educate my child. I also know that my kids' teachers are getting paid bobkis.


I live in NJ and in my area, there's really no "competition" - only 1 school that can send to. Sometimes I wish there was a barebones option so that tuition would be cheaper & wouldn't need scholarships and feel like a beggar.
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notshanarishona









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 11:07 pm
Being a SAHM is a luxury unless you have 0 earning power above minimum wage and have to pay babysitting in addition to school tuition.
I don't think it's fair to get a 50% discount so that you can enjoy being a SAHM.
If I was on the tuition committee, I would just it as how much you would earn if you were working half day at minimum wage and calculate based on that amount or something along those lines.
There are exceptions obviously such as a special needs child, have several kids under day school age, etc. where it doesn't help to work.
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Squishy









  


Post  Thu, Apr 20 2017, 11:32 pm
octopus wrote:
Outside of nyc, tuitions are astronomical. I live in the nyc area, and send to non-affluent schools where my kids' education are bare bones. I pay out of pocket to supplement my kids lack of whatever they aren't getting from school. And it still comes out cheaper than the exorbitant tuitions I know ppl are paying in the monsey/nj/five towns area. I know that I am not sending to schools that are charging more than the cost to educate my child. I also know that my kids' teachers are getting paid bobkis.


Even with all the government money available and with teacher getting bobkis, there are stilll physical plant costs per pupil such as insurance, utilities, janitor supplies, office supplies, repairs, janitor's salaries, bookkeepers, lawyers, accountants, etc. There could be rent or mortgage.

Teachers salaries are only one component of the cost of running a school.
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