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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
tichellady
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 6:31 pm
I have noticed on imamother that there is a tendency to assume that modern Orthodox Jews are more lenient in all areas of halakha and that the more " to the right " one is, the more strict one is with halakhic observance. I think that each community has its stengths and has areas where halakhic observance is particularly strong, including the modern orthodox community. If you have know idea what I mean Here are some examples. I'm curious to hear of more examples and am happy to discuss the strengths in other communities as well, but let's keep this positive
1. Tikkun olam
2. Shalom Bayis
3. Raising sons and daughters to be able to have a livelihood
4. Avoiding cruelty to animals
5. Talmud Torah for women
6. Welcoming attitude to all Jews
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Cmon be nice
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 6:42 pm
Loving (Supporting) the state of Israel and IDF
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amother
Chocolate
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 6:47 pm
tichellady wrote: |
6. Welcoming attitude to all Jews |
We went to a major MO community for a simcha. My husband left his tallis in the shul. It was shipped to him the next day. It is a very warm, wonderful city.
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amother
Denim
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 6:49 pm
tichellady wrote: | I have noticed on imamother that there is a tendency to assume that modern Orthodox Jews are more lenient in all areas of halakha and that the more " to the right " one is, the more strict one is with halakhic observance. I think that each community has its stengths and has areas where halakhic observance is particularly strong, including the modern orthodox community. If you have know idea what I mean Here are some examples. I'm curious to hear of more examples and am happy to discuss the strengths in other communities as well, but let's keep this positive
1. Tikkun olam
2. Shalom Bayis
3. Raising sons and daughters to be able to have a livelihood
4. Avoiding cruelty to animals
5. Talmud Torah for women
6. Welcoming attitude to all Jews |
(3) is the only one I see stressed more in MO communities.
(5) is a controversial issue that each side would claim they are more machmir about.
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PinkFridge
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 6:50 pm
I've been in several MO shuls and
- I love the singing. I grew up with that in a non-MO shul.
- There wasn't talking, at least not audible.
- While the rabbi spoke there was absolute quiet and in one shul, a doorkeeper in the women's section.
Is this being more machmir? Idk, and I'm sure there are many non-MO shuls you could say the same of, but if we're talking about being very careful to do things right, here you go
ETA: I hope this thread develops well. I would hate for it to become scorekeeping. Take my example. Am I in effect saying that non-MO shuls aren't particular in these areas? I don't want to be motzi la'az on any segment of klal Yisrael. Let's be careful, folks.
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mommy3b2c
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 6:57 pm
tichellady wrote: | I have noticed on imamother that there is a tendency to assume that modern Orthodox Jews are more lenient in all areas of halakha and that the more " to the right " one is, the more strict one is with halakhic observance. I think that each community has its stengths and has areas where halakhic observance is particularly strong, including the modern orthodox community. If you have know idea what I mean Here are some examples. I'm curious to hear of more examples and am happy to discuss the strengths in other communities as well, but let's keep this positive
1. Tikkun olam
2. Shalom Bayis
3. Raising sons and daughters to be able to have a livelihood
4. Avoiding cruelty to animals
5. Talmud Torah for women
6. Welcoming attitude to all Jews |
While I think it's beautiful to be machmir in all of these areas, I really don't think MO are more machmir on shalom Bayis. Does MO really think shalom Bayis is more important then other sects of Judaism?
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dancingqueen
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 7:11 pm
amother wrote: | (3) is the only one I see stressed more in MO communities.
(5) is a controversial issue that each side would claim they are more machmir about. |
Is it so hard to keep it positive as op requested? If you want to criticize start a new thread and use your sn.
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1091
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 7:12 pm
I don't think anything listed is machmir in Halacha. Maybe things placed with great importance.
Either way I live in a YU community. So you can decide if MO or not and I find the community very accepting of everyone irrespective of their level of observance.
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tichellady
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 7:49 pm
amother wrote: | (3) is the only one I see stressed more in MO communities.
(5) is a controversial issue that each side would claim they are more machmir about. |
I will explain what I mean. Being more machmir can mean a lot of different things but what I mean here is how I thing most people use it on this site, as in, the halakha requires more more of you. I agree that definition may be problematic but I think it's how many people use the term
So if school A believes that girls just need to know basic halakha they will be investing less time, effort and $ into educating girls than school B which believes that girls need to understand the halakhic process and learn directly from the original Sources , etc
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cnc
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 7:54 pm
I'm not trying to put a negative spin on things, I'm trying to clarify what exactly this thread is saying. Is your list focusing on what MO communities are specifically MORE makpid on than other communities?
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tichellady
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 7:59 pm
mommy3b2c wrote: | While I think it's beautiful to be machmir in all of these areas, I really don't think MO are more machmir on shalom Bayis. Does MO really think shalom Bayis is more important then other sects of Judaism? |
I do think this, but that's just my perspective. One example is modern orthodox people who will eat at less reputable kosher restaurants etc with family ( who are not orthodox) but won't eat there normally or will eat at relatives homes whose level of kashrut is less than theirs but is still ok on a basic level
One of the issues I see in our community is men coming late to shul and I think that the positive way of seeing that ( which I think is actually true) is that men are very involved in home life and spending time with kids in the morning, setting the table etc so families often come together to shul around 10, instead of the husbands leaving the wives with a house full of kids at 8:30. ( I'm not saying this is good or bad, I think there are good and bad parts to it, just like there are good and bad parts to having a community culture where men are expected to get to shul on time)
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tichellady
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 8:02 pm
Another example- in my community we hold that non Jews today are not considered like gentiles of the past who were idol worshippers who we could only save on Shabbat because of fear, or whom we could cheat and steal from if they wouldn't realize so we are actually more strict- in the sense that more Is expected of us in terms of how we treat gentiles
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cnc
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 8:09 pm
Interesting. I definitely see 2/3 of your examples in other communities often. I would never have assumed that MO place a greater emphasis on them than other communities do. And in the other example, I think it varies in individual families , but it's definitely not across the board.
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mommy3b2c
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 8:29 pm
tichellady wrote: | Another example- in my community we hold that non Jews today are not considered like gentiles of the past who were idol worshippers who we could only save on Shabbat because of fear, or whom we could cheat and steal from if they wouldn't realize so we are actually more strict- in the sense that more Is expected of us in terms of how we treat gentiles |
We also think this way in my community, which is not MO.
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mommy3b2c
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 8:33 pm
tichellady wrote: | I do think this, but that's just my perspective. One example is modern orthodox people who will eat at less reputable kosher restaurants etc with family ( who are not orthodox) but won't eat there normally or will eat at relatives homes whose level of kashrut is less than theirs but is still ok on a basic level
One of the issues I see in our community is men coming late to shul and I think that the positive way of seeing that ( which I think is actually true) is that men are very involved in home life and spending time with kids in the morning, setting the table etc so families often come together to shul around 10, instead of the husbands leaving the wives with a house full of kids at 8:30. ( I'm not saying this is good or bad, I think there are good and bad parts to it, just like there are good and bad parts to having a community culture where men are expected to get to shul on time) |
Unfortunately, men come late to shul in many communities. Some of them are probably helping their wives, and some of them are probably sleeping in. I find that in the kollel communities fathers tend to Very involved in child care and their families since their schedule is a bit looser. Many of them are taking the kids to the buses in the mornings and picking them up in the afternoons and watching them for a few hours until their wives come home. Many of them come home between sedarim to help with bath time and bed time
I think there are things that MO are more machmir on, I just don't agree with most of your examples.
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cnc
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 8:36 pm
mommy3b2c wrote: | Unfortunately, men come late to shul in many communities. Some of them are probably helping their wives, and some of them are probably sleeping in. I find that in the kollel communities fathers tend to Very involved in child care and their families since their schedule is a bit looser. Many of them are taking the kids to the buses in the mornings and picking them up in the afternoons and watching them for a few hours until their wives come home. Many of them come home between sedarim to help with bath time and bed time
I think there are things that MO are more machmir on, I just don't agree with most of your examples. |
Exactly my thoughts ,from the first to the last sentence.
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tichellady
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 8:38 pm
mommy3b2c wrote: | Unfortunately, men come late to shul in many communities. Some of them are probably helping their wives, and some of them are probably sleeping in. I find that in the kollel communities fathers tend to Very involved in child care and their families since their schedule is a bit looser. Many of them are taking the kids to the buses in the mornings and picking them up in the afternoons and watching them for a few hours until their wives come home. Many of them come home between sedarim to help with bath time and bed time
I think there are things that MO are more machmir on, I just don't agree with most of your examples. |
Interesting, so what are you examples? I'm curious to hear
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Jeanette
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 8:49 pm
mommy3b2c wrote: | While I think it's beautiful to be machmir in all of these areas, I really don't think MO are more machmir on shalom Bayis. Does MO really think shalom Bayis is more important then other sects of Judaism? |
The way I understood it is that if the wife needs help at home the husband would prioritize that over running to shul for a minyan, whereas others might call that being meikil in tefilla betzibur. But maybe the OP meant something else.
ETA: shoulda read the whole thread before posting.
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tichellady
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Wed, Aug 23 2017, 8:53 pm
Jeanette wrote: | The way I understood it is that if the wife needs help at home the husband would prioritize that over running to shul for a minyan, whereas others might call that being meikil in tefilla betzibur. But maybe the OP meant something else.
ETA: shoulda read the whole thread before posting. |
That is what I meant. I am also open to being wrong about this. I have just been thinking a lot about this and the fact that every decision can be made differently depending on which value you value more- and value over ritual observance often seems more important than other values in some communities
But there are probably lots of ways to see this, not one at
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