Claims his "hands hurt"

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amother

Burgundy

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 11:57 am

OP, sounds like you need to use positive reinforcement - sticker / star charts with rewards, or an immediate reward. Additionally, you may need to make the activities fun and/or less lonely. We use these with our 4.5 year old all the time. My suggestions:
- If he gets dressed himself, he gets a special story at breakfast (immediate reward)
- If he cleans up his toys for x minutes every day, he gets a star on her clean-up chart. A certain number of stars gets him a prize (star chart)
- While we clear the table or clean her room, we put on music (activity more fun)
- Make a gameshow for everyone cleaning up together - sometimes kids protest doing things because they have to do them alone (more fun / less lonely).
- Tell him he needs to do what you asked but you will be in the room with him to keep him company while he does it (less lonely)
- Have him race you counting out loud, or a timer, or his siblings to put his wrapper I nthe garbage to see how fast he is (more fun / less lonely)
Etc.

If he's still resistant, build it up slowly. Examples:
- Say, ok, I see that it is overwhelming to clean up a whole bin of legos. So let's put on a timer for just 5 minutes (or 2 or 3 or whatever) and you only have to clean up until the timer beeps - if I see that you really tried to clean up then, I will do the rest, but if you do it too slowly, then you'll have to help me clean up after the timer is done. If this works for a week, praise his abilities and tell him you think that he's so capable the timer will be increased by 1 minute (or half a minute if he's very resistant). Keep increasing in small increments.
-It seems like it's hard for you te get dressed, let's split it - you put on your underwear/pants/tzitzis/shirt, and I'll put on your belt and socks and shoes. Again, if after a week or 2 of this working, praise abilities and increase what he does by a little.
This works really well - the child feels like he has some of the attention and help he needs, but you are simultaneously building his independence.

Lastly, praise EVERYTHING, EVERY TIME:
- I always tell my 4.5 year old how proud of her I am when she shows independence and responsibility, everything from putting her bowl in the sink to putting her shoes on, and it doesn't matter whether I had to ask her 3 times or not - the goal is to show her you are proud of the end result.
- I also 'brag' about her in her hearing to my husband, my mother, my mother in law, my sister in law, etc., when she is consistently responsible ("Aunt X, did you know that DD got into pajamas by herself every single day this week? I couldn't believe it!").
- When she gets a prize from one of her charts (she has at elast 3 different charts), then I encourage her to "show off" to her relatives to explain how she earned it - it's so cute to see her so proud!
- I also tell her each time how proud she should be of herself for being responsible, independent, capable, etc.
I think it's important for them to both feel that we are proud of them and that they are proud of themselves - if they link completing tasks responsibly with positive self-esteem, they will keep doing them and develop good work ethic in the long run.

Also, if he says his hands hurt, tell him he can go wash them in cold water for a minute or you can kiss them for a minute, and then he can do what he's supposed to afterwards - you want to acknowledge his complaint (so he is validated), but not make a fuss about it (so he doesn't use it as an excuse).

Aside from this, make sure to spend extra time with him at other times, he may need a little one-on-one with you, even just an extra 5 minutes - tell him he gets special mommy time for 5 minutes, and you can do whatever he wants with him. I know it seems like very little, but telling him it's special makes it bigger, and it's enough time to do something short and fun with him (tell a story, draw a picture, tickle time, cuddling, etc.).

Zehava

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 12:44 pm

amother wrote:

Can someone post a link to the other thread please?

http://www.imamother.com/forum.....ight=

mommy3b2c

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 1:08 pm

amother wrote:

But it seems that no matter what I DO do for him it seems that I'm "NEVER helping him". He does seem to be a hyperchondriac over the slightest things--when he comes out of the bath he SHRIEKS that he's cold until I put on his bathrobe, but then like yesterday when it was chilly outside I offered him a jacket--but no, now he "likes to be cold" and this morning he chose to wear shorts and short-sleeves.

I WOULD put the legos away, problem is his older brother also plays with the legos and he DOES clean them up so I can't put them totally away or he'd be really mad. I did recently more than threaten to put the legos in the garbage if he didn't help, it did get him slightly more motivated, but he becomes all deer-in-the-headlights panicky and then only helps in the ever-so-slightest way.

I'm sorry op, but it seems like you see your son as being "out to get you". As long as you see him in that light, things will only get worse. 5 years old is still a BABY. You seem to think he is a big boy and needs to grow up because he has another sibling on the way. But that's to bad on you. Just because you decided to have more babies, does not mean he has to give up his right to be a baby. I suggest you change your attitude and go for help before you destroy your relationship.

going-up

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 2:53 pm

Maybe write a list every day of 5 positive things about your son. If that's too difficult do 3 positive things on paper. Work on the foundation of your relationship by learning to love and appreciate the good parts of him instead of focusing on the not so great parts. This will help you to feel for him more and after that you can sympathize more, make his chores easier for him and give him positive compliments for any tiny step he does towards cleaning, listening or being respectful.

amother

Peach

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 4:18 pm

Laiya wrote:

"I'm so sorry that your hands hurt tzaddik'l! Can you show me where? Can I give them a kiss? What do you think will make them feel better? Would it help if you sat and rested them in my lap while I read you a book?"

This should not be tied to the cleaning up. Not, you'll read him a book if he cleans up after.

Because the most important message here is that a 5 year old shouldn't think that his mother doesn't care about his pain, or does't believe him (even if she has good reason not to). In his own head, something is bothering him, and that's what's important.

As far as getting him to do chores.

OP, try to catch him listening and being good, and heap praises on him. Just be very very positive. Forget about training him right now. Convey to him that you view him as an overall good, helpful person.

Avoid power struggles. Don't ask him to do something unless you're extremely confident he will comply. If you get into a power struggle, you both lose.

It sounds like there's too much negativity at this time, in the relationship, to train him to clean. Let some time go by where he feels enveloped in love, before trying to get him to do the chores.

amother

Brown

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 5:33 pm

What makes me more frustrated, is that I HAVE tried all of these things--but they are just not working. Seems like the more positive reinforcement I give him he's either "not in the mood for that thing." He just wants EVERYTHING to be "fair" but his definition of fair is if I help him as much as HE wants. So its hard for me to discern if this "hands hurting" is legit or just another hypochondriac excuse as to why he's not contributing. I'm sorry if I'm just "kvetching" some more, but when I'm dealing with a daily 30-1 hr long tantrum where I'm locking myself and him in the bathroom b/c he's throwing an out-of-control tantrum (throwing things at me and trying to hurt/bite me) not letting me get ANYTHING done, and then he demands that I help him NOW and even when I give in to his requests out of love, he does nothing about his end of the bargain, it just feels like nothing works with him and he always manages to manipulate his way to what he wants. How do I find out what is going on with his hands?

Zehava

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 5:50 pm

"Another hypochondriac excuse as to why he's not contributing "
"He does nothing about his end of the bargain"

Multiple choice, the following statements apply to
A) a lazy employee
B)a lazy business partner
C) a lazy husband
D) A five year old child in need of unconditional love

going-up

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 6:00 pm

amother wrote:

What makes me more frustrated, is that I HAVE tried all of these things--but they are just not working.

Have you really tried ALL of these things consisently for a month or more at a time?

You keep asking how do you figure out what is going on with his hands yet you contradict yourself by saying he 'claims' and is a 'hypochondriac' so which one is it ? Do you believe his hands hurt? Or do you think it is just an excuse?

If it is an excuse what is the underlying reason for him to make excuses? Is he lacking love? Is ge lacking attention? Is something else bothering him? Does he feel like he is not ready to be as big as he is expected to be?

amother

Mint

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 6:12 pm

amother wrote:

OP, What is the initiating event that causes such a tantrum? Is it always when u ask to him to clean up or can it be anything that sets him off? If he does this often, it may just be his way of getting ur attention. It may also be a sensory processing disorder. The only way to know if it's emotional in nature is to rule out everything else.
Have you taken him to hand specialist, rheumatologist, sensory OT, done labs etc?

amother

Lavender

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 6:30 pm

It is a good idea to take him for an intake to tikva at ohel 2925 kings highway
or jbfcs in boro park or jbfcs in midwood. ( If you live in nyc) They might be able to give you a bit of an insight of what you are dealing with (just after the initial intake.) All these places take insurance. Please understand that they could probably help you as much or better as any private therapist.
REMEMBER, THEY WORK UNDER SUPERVISION. THEREFORE, THEY DO ATLEAST A DECENT JOB!
also, please have your son tested by an occupational therapy for sensory processing disorder.
Children with sensory issues may have, because of it, OPPOSITIONAL BEHAVIOR. They may have a difficult time going from one simple task to another, let alone follow instructions. It requires much more brain energy for them than for an average child.
There are things going on here that can be addressed, if you KNOW what is going on.
(as parents, we do not know everything. We may have intuition to children who are similar to us and to the people we clique with, but we may not understand a child whose brain,and physiology operates differently.)
You can probably test for sensory issues by sending a letter requesting for ot to the dept of education if you live in NYC. If you need help wording I can help you.
NOTE: occupational therapy will help your child be comfortable in his surroundings even when it is out of his comfort zone. THAT MEANS HE WILL BE ABLE TO DO THINGS THAT HE MUST DO AS OPPOSED THAT HE WANTS TO.

amother

Brown

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 7:03 pm

He has "issues" I will grant that. From poor understanding of consequences, to poor understanding of the concept of "always" and "never" to poor understanding of time and resources. I'm more insulted from the accusation that I don't give my child "unconditional love"--I really do, and I really try, but his method of gaining attention is incredibly frustrating and illogical. Its like even if I do try to make an incentive chart--he'll then decide, that "I dont' need/want it". If I make an incentive of "all who help clean up the room get to go out for ice cream"--then he won't like ice cream that day. I tell him lets say Shabbos morning our routine is to get to shul in time for a lollipop at the end of davening, he dilly-dallies about getting dressed, and then say he doesn't want it anyway, so we don't end up going and he missed it. Then a 1/2 hour after shul is over he then "Wants to go get a lollipop"--uh sorry, you missed it, but then he throws a tantrum for an hour. Today he was "helping" us build the sukkah. Most of the time he was fiddling with an extra piece of wood and the broken strings and cable ties, and demanding that I help him, most of the times I acquiesced and tied this and helped him with that. I asked him if he could go get me a garbage bag from inside--no. Can you help me pick up the garbage? no. Ok, he did finally get me the broom when I asked him to. He wanted a screw for his thing--so when my husband had a free moment, he put in a screw. He wanted something else, but we didn't have another thing, he got upset. Then he wanted to attach a paper-towel tube with another screw, and my husband said it wasn't going to work, and even tried a nail. Then he had to go to mincha. When the papertowel tube fell off this set off a HUGE melt-down, where he was trying to hurt me with his wooden contraption, pulling on me, trying to bite me or throw things at me. I put the wooden thing out of reach and he was trying to climb to get it. So I had to put it outside. Mind you he was probably hungry, but he wasn't being safe so I couldn't leave him to go make supper and had to take him upstairs to a room where he could ride out the tantrum and I stayed with him--though he usually doesnt like this. This tantrum lasted a good 45 minutes until my husband came back home. These types of tantrums have become an almost daily occurrence and I cannot entirely figure out what triggers them. It becomes very hard to give unconditional love after that kind of "abuse" and him saying "Stupid mommy"--of course I give him love anyway. But through this all, I cannot figure out if there's any truth behind his "hands hurt" complaint. After this whole tantrum episode, he wanted juice, so I had to take something out of the oven, I asked him can you get it and bring it to the table--something he usually doens't mind doing, and when it was behind something in the fridge, I took it out for him, handed it to him and he said "I can't, my hands hurt". Its like you usually manage a 1/2 gallon of milk no problem. My 2.5 yr old can lug a gallon of milk up a flight of steps and you can't bring a normal juice container 20ft to the table? What is going on here?

amother

Taupe

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 7:21 pm

Op people are trying to tell you something over and over again but you are being extremely stubborn and stuck in your ways.
I asked him to get me a garbage bag he answers no, can you pick up garbage he answers no, can you get me a broom ect.
Why do you keep asking your 5 yr old for favors???!!! especially if you know he doesnt like to help! Seriously it seems to me that you are using your kids and the poor child is hurting and frustrated, hence this behavior and long tantrums.
The amount of favors you ask are what I ask of my 10 yr old in a month.
I get my kids to help in a way that excites them I never want them to feel used. eg liba sets the table stunning, liba would you like to set the table today?
You really need to get yourself some help in dealing with your children.

DREAMING

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 7:29 pm

amother wrote:

I disagree. My two year old can "help" set the table. Kids helping is a good thing . My ten year old vacuums, unpacks groceries, can wash a floor. I would absolutely expect a five year old to put his legos back in the bin.

Op , something is definitely going on and there's no way to know what if you don't check it out. Tantrums like you describe shouldn't be happening so often. I would talk to a dr or therapist and go from there.
I think the way your wording your problem as a five year won't be your helper is not the point. He should be able (although not always willingly)clean his legos. But the bigger problem is the tantrums. Get help on how to deal for real

going-up

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 7:36 pm

I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't even bother replying on this thread anymore but I'll try one more incase OP you are actually reading and taking in the replies.

One simple thing stop bribing and instead randomly give him small treats and gifts just because you love him. Not when he does something 'good' or 'bad' but completely out of the blue.

If you want to be helped there are so many helpful tips on this thread. Please go back and read them and take them in. Stop trying to prove how hard and difficult your son is. How he is 'abusing' you. Etc. We hear from your posts you are having an extremely difficult and frustrating time with him. The advice given above is not to tell you 'it's your fault, your a bad mother' no! On the contrary you are an excellent mother for trying so much with him and for wanting what's best for him. The fact that you even are asking for advice shows how you want to change the dynamics of how you deal with him so that his behavior will change.

Mommyg8

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 10:00 pm

First, I would get him a full evaluation. OT, medical, etc. Even if one OT says he his fine, maybe another OT will find a problem. Hint is that his hand hurts when he is writing also.

I disagree with the poster that said that five year olds can help. Each child is an individual. One child may be responsible and help at 3, another might not be mature enough until at least 8. There is NO one age for a kid to help.

From reading your posts, it does sound as if you have a lot of expectations. I think its time to stop asking him to do anything, with or without prizes. From what you're writing, it seems to me as if he is trying to tell you something. Everyone is saying the same thing - listen to him. he's upset. Something's not working. A five year old is not an abuser. Take a step back, and let go. You see it's not working, just let go. Don't ask him to do anything else for the next while - give both of you a break. And give him lots of hugs. Not because he helped Mommy - but just because. Pretend he's five years old.

groisamomma

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 10:24 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I disagree with the poster that said that five year olds can help. Each child is an individual. One child may be responsible and help at 3, another might not be mature enough until at least 8. There is NO one age for a kid to help.

Um, a kid can't bring his mommy a garbage bag at that age?! We really are raising selfish little people, aren't we?

Purple2

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 10:32 pm

Your child is 5!! I'm actually really sad for your child who is quite obviously screaming for help. He's a child, not your assistant while you keep having kids and are overwhelmed. Yes my children helped at this age - for chinuch but that was it. They helped so they could learn about helping and get a mitzva note. He can do a bit for chinuch but don't rely on a six year old for your cleaning help!

salt

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 10:44 pm

camp wrote:

She's not asking him to clean the house for her.
She gave some examples - throwing a wrapper in the garbage, and picking up his toys.
Not exactly being her assistant.
I wouldn't write my 5 yr old a mitzvah note because he ate a candy and threw his wrapper in the garbage!

Mommyg8

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 10:52 pm

groisamomma wrote:

Um, a kid can't bring his mommy a garbage bag at that age?! We really are raising selfish little people, aren't we?

There's a time and place for everything. It doesn't seem as if this is the time and place to teach him how to help. Read her posts- this sounds like a very unhappy child. Something is bothering him. To focus on his not helping is really not the point right now. The mother needs to focus on getting them both to a calmer place. I think that having less demands temporarily might be in place here. And lots of hugs. Maybe he needs more sleep. Maybe he's hungry. Maybe it's something else. There is a need here that is not being addressed.

Abby2

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 11:05 pm

I have found giving "choices " very effective. From my 3 year old to my 9 year old.

Eg: "yanki, please clean up the Lego"
Yanki "my hands hurt"
Mom " wow, that must be so hard for you, I'll help you!"
Yanki" no, I wont help "
Mom "yanki, you have a choice, either you can help mommy clean up the lego, or you can choose not to play with the lego for a few days so your hands can get better."

Hopefully he chooses right.
As others have said, it doesn't work straight away and needs constant work, and you will go backwards. But you need to persevere.

There are resources online for the "choices" I can't remember what they are called but maybe someone can weigh in.

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