Teen ds worried about being a "kofer"

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amother

Coffee

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 10:46 pm

Just spoke to ds who is away at yeshiva. He has some religious OCD tendencies- did I concentrate well enough during davening, did I remeber al hanisim, if the heat from pasta rises and potentially blow onto something that is fleish if the pasta pot is milchigs. you get the idea.
He tells me he had a very hard week. I asked what happened. He said he was learning something about giants, either in gemarah or the parsha, not sure and then he said he just can't believe their were giants. To any other person, we could say, well maybe people shrunk- or if the torah says it then yes there were, but the fact that he questioned that there giants sent him off on a spiral that he is a kofer and how can he not believe what is in the Torah. He said all week his brain was going around and around with the theoretical arguments. He is getting help- but the therapist has been out for 2 weeks. he did speak to one of the rebbeim who helped him a bit- but I am just feeling so bad. Then of course after we hung up.I stated to cry and then got a text from him saying Don't feel sad. awwww. I told him Hashem loves him and no way could he be a kofer. etc. Any other advice.

amother

Lemon

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 11:25 pm

I don't know how to respond to your question but he sounds like he is a really good kid and you are doing the right thing by getting help.
Maybe work with his therapist on proper responses. And if they leave have a backup plan for while they are gone.
Hugs.

amother

Coffee

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 11:29 pm

Thanks. Wish I could speak to the therapist, but because of ds being 18 they can't say much too me. Just so sad seeing ideas get twisted in his head.

amother

Sapphire

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 6:39 am

I think I have some form of ocd so I understand the pain you are both in!

Maybe ask your son to give the therapist permission to speak to you? Would he mind, if he knows it's because you want to know how you can respond most helpfully?

amother

Ivory

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 7:33 am

Ouch, your son sounds like he's in a lot of emotional anguish. Definitely seems to me like a serious OCD issue.
I personally went through a very rough period in my adult life and I harbored lots of anger towards Hashem. There was a time that I couldn't even daven. Mitzvos became a burden till I opened up to my dayan. He told me to see a psychiatrist and a therapist and I'm completely fine now. He told me a very logical statement which calmed me immediately. "The yetzer hora does not come to those that have left Hashem WILLINGLY or have no guilt feelings. The very fact that I'm BOTHERED by my thoughts and behavior is a sign that I'm just a struggling Yid. It's business as usual for the yetzer hora. He doesn't go the fallen ones, only those that he sees as "potential clients". I don't know how old your son is but please try explainiing this to him. Example: Would you try marketing a swing set to someone that doesnt own a backyard? Of course not! I was advised not to fight those thoughts and they did ease up a lot even before the medication and therapy kicked in...

OCD is no joke and can put one at risk for major depression. Please consider putting him on even a small dose of meds to help him become more functional. I know how it feels to be trapped in a mind that scares you, TORTURE!!!

amother

Coffee

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 10:40 am

amother wrote:

Great advice thanks!
I did mention to my son if he would like me to speak to therapist I would be more than happy to, I guess maybe I should rephrase and say- can I speak to the therapist. This was a big step to admit he needs help, to speak to his rav and the Rav helping get help and actually calling the therapist to go. I don't want to hijack the empowerment he is feeling by saying can I talk too.....

amother

Tangerine

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 1:50 pm

My husband has a form of religious OCD. Besides for therapy, he is also on a small dose of an SSRI (paxil). It has made a tremendous difference to our married life. Posting in case this could be helpful to you.

Sometimes obsessive thoughts don't go away on their own.

amother

Coffee

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 2:15 pm

I appreciate yr sharing. This is just the beginning of a long process will see where it leads. All options are open.

amother

Wine

Sat, Jan 20 2018, 8:39 pm

I have ocd too and I would want someone to remind me that it's my ocd.

amother

Mistyrose

Sat, Jan 20 2018, 11:27 pm

amother wrote:

I have ocd too and I would want someone to remind me that it's my ocd.

Good advice. He can remind himself too that it's a brain trick it's not his own thoughts it's the ocd. Aslo, what's the worst case scenario? So he is a kofer, the world still turns. Have him try the scary thought on for size and see how it feels to say 'so what'.
If you want to address it from a different angle, I remember learning that even if he just wants to believe but he doesn't yet he is still a maamin. I don't have source for that and it may just validate the ocd but I thought I'd put that out there anyway.

amother

Mauve

Sat, Jan 20 2018, 11:31 pm

I know exercise helps a lot for depression. I'm wondering if it can help OCD. You might want to inquire.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Jan 21 2018, 2:09 pm

Thanks all great ideas... Its so hard being far away from him, but it may be better not to have me hovering, I have to remind myself this is a process he has to go through and I can't fix it for him. Its so hard to have to see him go through "the yucky" feelings in order to conquer the ocd in his head.
When he had come to me in the past about halachic worries, that was easier for me to understand, probably because I do it myself at times, but theoretical beliefs is so much harder for me to understand the OCD....
Side question- do people say tehillim for this with mental ailments?

amother

Mint

Sun, Jan 21 2018, 2:30 pm

I guess I am the only one who thinks that his questions about mythical sounding things from gemara and tanach could be real questions. I don’t have ocd but I have those questions too.

Op you sound a little enmeshed with your son, who is an adult.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Jan 21 2018, 2:50 pm

amother wrote:

ds is only 18- so not full adult yet- and you a correct that he does have real questions- there in lies the problem that he is finding- his worries/questions have sound basis, but its the level it goes to next that is the problem..... Most people would not begin to worry that they are a kofer or Hashem will punish them if they question, that's where the OCD comes in. When there is that nagging thought that just won't leave and you worry about it to a point where you can not function etc.

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Jan 21 2018, 6:57 pm

Please make sure your son's therapist is using Exposure and Response Prevention, a kind of CBT, as an intervention. That is the only therapy modality that is evidence-based for OCD. If the therapist does not use these techniques, he will not be able to help your son. Not trying to sound alarmist, but some individuals are in treatment for years until they pursue the right kind of method that actually works.

amother

Coffee

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 9:52 am

thanks for the head up!

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