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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
amother
Tangerine
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 5:52 am
So I remember learning that you are not supposed to call a rabbi "you", but rather refer to him as "the rabbi", eg "will the rabbi be giving shiur this week" etc.
Do you do this?
Asking because I just watched a program on the coronation of the Queen of England, and the interviewer was referring to the Queen as "you". Not "her Majesty" or even "your majesty". And in turn she was referring to herself as "I", not we. I found that surprising, and wondered where the rule with rabbis came from.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 6:54 am
So we French have vous which helps, but yes, better to avoid for a gadol.
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salt
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 6:59 am
My DH always says, we refer to Hashem as 'you' - Baruch ATA Hashem - so why should Rabbi's deserve 3rd person?
Having said that, I usually start out by saying Harav.., but if it's a long conversation, end up moving over to "you" - otherwise the conversation ends up sounding so stilted.
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amother
Tangerine
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 7:01 am
salt wrote: | My DH always says, we refer to Hashem as 'you' - Baruch ATA Hashem - so why should Rabbi's deserve 3rd person?
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Never thought of that!
Great point!
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imasinger
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 7:07 am
I believe it comes from German and related languages. Likely made its way into Jewish culture via Yiddish.
If you ever are interested, do a little research on linguistics and honorifics, it's fascinating stuff. The distinction you mentioned, using the third person as a form of respect, is one of many ways that people show respect.
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amother
Honeydew
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 7:07 am
Ill try to say rabbi ---. Especially talking to sons rebbe...sounds so bchavadik. But if convo gets lengthy I'll probably slip up
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DrMom
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 7:18 am
I don't use third person when addressing my rav. I use regular second person singular.
I suppose if I spoke a language which had a formal and familiar second person, I would use the formal version (e.g., in Spanish, tú vs. Usted), but this structure does not exist in English.
To me, using third person sounds stilted, and my rav would probably find it very odd to be addressed that way.
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amother
Pumpkin
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 7:29 am
Other languages have formal you and in formal you.
For example in Spanish Tu and Usted.
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cozyblanket
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 8:03 am
I use 3rd person, but I will say "thank you" the regular way.
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Mommyg8
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 8:06 am
I remember my grandfather lecturing us on how to say the different forms of "you" - this definitely comes from Yiddish (old German). I think there is a plural you and a singular you as well, if I remember correctly....I wish now, that I can remember what he said... Any Yiddish speakers here who can clarify?
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centurion
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 8:30 am
Mommyg8 wrote: | I remember my grandfather lecturing us on how to say the different forms of "you" - this definitely comes from Yiddish (old German). I think there is a plural you and a singular you as well, if I remember correctly....I wish now, that I can remember what he said... Any Yiddish speakers here who can clarify? |
Yes, it's du (or di for chassidishe pronunciation) as singular and ihr in plural or formal. I'd venture to say that most ppl don't use ihr.
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Moonlight
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 8:39 am
Dh only addresses rav in third person . I can't do it.
I had a classmate who addressed her father in third person only as well
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leah233
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 8:50 am
centurion wrote: | Yes, it's du (or di for chassidishe pronunciation) as singular and ihr in plural or formal. I'd venture to say that most ppl don't use ihr. |
In Litvish Yiddish "Ihr" is (supposed to be) used for any (significantly) older or respected person. It is considered disrespectful to refer to them as "du"
Do you mean the same thing when you write it is used in formal form?
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thunderstorm
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 8:51 am
My DH speaks to his parents in third person and it's so natural for him. To me it's the strangest thing. But he is from a different country, so I'm assuming it's cultural.
I do address my Rav in third person and when I speak Yiddish to my sons rebbes I say "the Rebbe" or "ihr"
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yo'ma
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 9:16 am
IMO, it has to do with respect and nothing else. I think the interviewer should have said your majesty and not you, but that's just me.
As far as vos or usted goes, I'm so bad because of half the time I have no idea what I'm saying and always say vos. Afterwards I feel bad, but everyone knows I speak so poorly anyway, so...
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Ruchel
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 9:16 am
Nope, German isn't third person, it's du vs Sie
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Sadie
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 9:22 am
DrMom wrote: | I don't use third person when addressing my rav. I use regular second person singular.
I suppose if I spoke a language which had a formal and familiar second person, I would use the formal version (e.g., in Spanish, tú vs. Usted), but this structure does not exist in English.
To me, using third person sounds stilted, and my rav would probably find it very odd to be addressed that way. |
English used to have this! In the olden days "you" was plural/formal and "thee/thou" was singular/informal. It would be helpful in many circumstances to bring this back!
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Mommyg8
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 10:34 am
Ruchel wrote: | Nope, German isn't third person, it's du vs Sie |
Ruchel, this is probably based on Old German, not the vernacular.
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iyar
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 10:52 am
centurion wrote: | Yes, it's du (or di for chassidishe pronunciation) as singular and ihr in plural or formal. I'd venture to say that most ppl don't use ihr. |
Your Yiddish appears to be fine but your venturing to say, as far as I know, is incorrect.
Yiddish speakers will use "ihr" not "du" ("dee") when addressing a Rav.
Any more proficient Yiddish speakers who want to contradict me, please feel free to do so.
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Mommyg8
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Mon, Feb 05 2018, 11:07 am
iyar wrote: | Your Yiddish appears to be fine but your venturing to say, as far as I know, is incorrect.
Yiddish speakers will use "ihr" not "du" ("dee") when addressing a Rav.
Any more proficient Yiddish speakers who want to contradict me, please feel free to do so. |
In the litvish world, for those that still speak Yiddish, that is correct.
I just had not known that "ihr" is the plural for "you". Interesting.
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