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Forum
-> Yom Tov / Holidays
-> Chanukah
Would you tell your kids?
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Yes |
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47% |
[ 22 ] |
No |
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52% |
[ 24 ] |
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Total Votes : 46 |
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amother
OP
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Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:32 pm
The actual story of Yehudis?
Dh just asked me if we would tell our kids. I don’t think we would cover it up but not sure I would sit them down davka to tell them. How bout you?
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amother
Teal
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Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:34 pm
I'm not sure what you mean
Is there another story about Yehudis besides for the one where she seduced the general and then beheaded him when she got his trust?
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amother
OP
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Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:38 pm
That’s the story I’m talking about. I’ve never learnt it as she seduced him or anything along those lines...
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amother
Floralwhite
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Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:44 pm
I don’t know how young your kids are but lower elementary school already learns the story...
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amother
Teal
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Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:47 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote: | That’s the story I’m talking about. I’ve never learnt it as she seduced him or anything along those lines... |
Ok then
What DID you learn then?
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amother
Saddlebrown
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Thu, Dec 10 2020, 8:52 pm
I just told it to my 5th grade students as "he wanted to marry her, and she said she would marry him..."
And yes, we do talk about the beheading. We also do Sisra in Navi which is even more graphic.
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thunderstorm
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Thu, Dec 10 2020, 9:09 pm
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote: | I just told it to my 5th grade students as "he wanted to marry her, and she said she would marry him..."
And yes, we do talk about the beheading. We also do Sisra in Navi which is even more graphic. |
Yes. And I had no issue learning any of this.
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amother
Magenta
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Thu, Dec 10 2020, 9:09 pm
The kids learn in nursery that she wanted to become his friend and she wanted him to like her so she got him wine and cheese. They also learn that she beheaded him and put his head at the gate of yerushalayim. It's the most exciting part of the story.
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little neshamala
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Thu, Dec 10 2020, 9:15 pm
Oh my gosh.
She seduced him? I never knew that! I was taught that she got him to trust her by saying she could give him secrets how to win over the Jews, bu sharing their weak spots etc. She was charismatic and believable, he liked her, she gave him lots of cheese and wine, and chopped off his head.
Im feeling quite annoyed right now. What, at least 13 years of solid Bais Yaakov education and I never knew the real story?
Can someone please educate me...
(And OP, I say yes teach your kids the real story so they dont learn it when theyre in their 30s and come out feeling as incredibly annoyed as I do now)
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amother
Tangerine
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Fri, Dec 11 2020, 12:09 am
little neshamala wrote: | Oh my gosh.
She seduced him? I never knew that! I was taught that she got him to trust her by saying she could give him secrets how to win over the Jews, bu sharing their weak spots etc. She was charismatic and believable, he liked her, she gave him lots of cheese and wine, and chopped off his head.
Im feeling quite annoyed right now. What, at least 13 years of solid Bais Yaakov education and I never knew the real story?
Can someone please educate me...
(And OP, I say yes teach your kids the real story so they dont learn it when theyre in their 30s and come out feeling as incredibly annoyed as I do now) |
sorry for your experience, but OP, I strongly disagree.
there is something called age appropriateness.
it is NOT age appropriate for an 8 year old to learn about seduction, so sorry!!!
they can learn the story about Yehudis and her bravery in an AGE APPROPRIATE way!!
that is completely inappropriate in my opinion.
I also learned this story as a child in an age appropriate way and yes, now I am an adult, and yes, I now know she seduced him, and no, I don't feel annoyed.
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amother
Lawngreen
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Fri, Dec 11 2020, 12:23 am
Wow, I’m still the only person who voted No? It must be because my kids are young. I cannot think of any reason it’s necessary to tell a five year old about seduction. I also remember learning about the beheading but not about the seduction and I think that’s well appropriate for a child.
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yidisheh mama
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Fri, Dec 11 2020, 12:27 am
little neshamala wrote: | Oh my gosh.
She seduced him? I never knew that! I was taught that she got him to trust her by saying she could give him secrets how to win over the Jews, bu sharing their weak spots etc. She was charismatic and believable, he liked her, she gave him lots of cheese and wine, and chopped off his head.
Im feeling quite annoyed right now. What, at least 13 years of solid Bais Yaakov education and I never knew the real story?
Can someone please educate me...
(And OP, I say yes teach your kids the real story so they dont learn it when theyre in their 30s and come out feeling as incredibly annoyed as I do now) |
I also learned this "version"! 🤨
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Redbird
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Fri, Dec 11 2020, 1:12 am
I don't even remember if I learned the actual story in school or later.
But what I learned when I was little is she brought him wine and cheese to make him sleepy, and when he fell asleep she chopped off his head.
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amother
Scarlet
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Fri, Dec 11 2020, 1:16 am
It’s funny, DH was just telling me that he told the story (in a hopefully age appropriate way) to my wide eyed 1st grade daughter. He was actually quite surprised she didn’t already know it from her Morah.
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#BestBubby
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Fri, Dec 11 2020, 1:20 am
I think a better question is would you tell your kids the story of Chana and her seven sons?
So scary!
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amother
Yellow
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Fri, Dec 11 2020, 1:31 am
#BestBubby wrote: | I think a better question is would you tell your kids the story of Chana and her seven sons?
So scary! |
I always heard that story in school. But never heard the story about Yehudis in school at all. Though I knew about from reading stuff outside of school. So, I knew the complete version, anyway.
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amother
OP
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Fri, Dec 11 2020, 1:47 am
Expecting our first so this isn’t actually applicable yet.
I learnt the version of her telling him she’d give him secrets and then served wine and cheese etc. with the beheading obv.
I never learnt about the seduction and that they had relations.
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zohar
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Fri, Dec 11 2020, 2:32 am
Yehudis did initially gain helifornus's trust by offering to spy and give advice to him. This is according to text. (I just looked it up and read it.) it is only insinuated that she seduced him, and by the text, it's reasonable to assume that he got drunk and passed out before committing the deed. It's only on the fourth day that he asked her to join him in his tent. The rest of the time she was giving him what he thought was inside information.
I also just checked secular and Christian sources and they tell the story just like we all learned it in Bais Yaakov. It is interesting though, that there is question on when this actually took place. The text, which comes to us through the Christians' preservation, says it's during the time of nebuchadnezzar. (Which is interesting to me, because the general's name in that version is still helifornus, which sounds Greek to me). Also, they say that he was the Asyrian king. And nebuchadnezzar was a babylonian king. (Asyria would aline better with the Jewish version.) The medrashim say she was the daughter of yochanan kohen gadol and took place during the Greek period.
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LovesHashem
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Fri, Dec 11 2020, 2:38 am
High school they can learn about the seduction.
Younger they learn about the other details.
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clowny
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Fri, Dec 11 2020, 9:49 am
Redbird wrote: | I don't even remember if I learned the actual story in school or later.
But what I learned when I was little is she brought him wine and cheese to make him sleepy, and when he fell asleep she chopped off his head. |
This the version I learnt and is also the version my kids are learning now.
I totally agree with amother tangerine.
I was laughing to myself when I read this thread because I’m just learning the full story now. While I was reading this dh walked in and I repeated it to him. We laughed together and he filled me in on the story. In no way do I feel annoyed. This is not the only story of Jewish history that is kept from young children because of some inappropriate details.
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