source for the minhag of challa over couple's head??

miriamnechama

Wed, Jun 18 2008, 8:44 am

I've seen it at a few chasunas....

befor teh chossona nd kalla go into te yichud room, someone takes a whole round challa and holds it over their heads and then breaks it into 2 over their heads.

what's the source / purpose for this??

zufriedene

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 8:26 am

its a minhag in JLM we dont always know resources, we just go along with tradition and pass it on to the next generation

freidasima

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 8:41 am

You don't want to know.
It's not even a Jewish minhag but a non jewish one to give fertility. Like the rice that the non jews throw after their weddings.
But it is a nice one so why not...we were "megayer" it, just like the chassidishe rebbes so wisely megayered so many niggunim and made them ours...and so you don't remember the origin, you know that today that's the tune to X from Lubavitch or Modzitz etc. and that's that.

zufriedene

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 8:44 am

that was RUDE! I<m GOING TO davke LOOK FOR THE SOURCE, TRULY HOPE I FIND IT!

miriamnechama

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 9:10 am

zufriedene wrote:

that was RUDE! I<m GOING TO davke LOOK FOR THE SOURCE, TRULY HOPE I FIND IT!

here's another.. stepping on a silver spoon before entering yichud room...

Apple pie

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 9:18 am

I heard about the minhag of the silver spoon... but I have no source.

Why is it rude to mention the non jewish origin of a minhag? (if accurate)

Ruchel

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 9:20 am

oh, it's like saying Mordechai comes from marduk and Esther from Ishtar. Makes sense, as these names were their "secular" names and they had Jewish names too, but to some it is awful to say.

freidasima

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 9:31 am

Well we know about breaking bread over a couple's head from medieval non Jewish manuscripts. Can you find me something before around 1200 that is Jewish?! If so, I eat my words (and the bread!)...

miriamnechama

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 9:38 am

actually teh rice may be to do with when we throw confetti over teh chosson before the chuppa... oh I remember dh givingme confetti befre teh chasuna, and I was like.. what do I do with this?? had never seen that done before.... and his hatw as full of it and so was my shaitel.... um in olden times they threw grains of wheat kernels on the chosson...

McMommy

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 10:01 am

Ruchel - How did you learn about the Mordechai and Esther thing?

Ruchel

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 10:02 am

common knwoledge... but I recently heard it again at a Jewish history shiur given by a Litvish rav.

freidasima

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 3:58 pm

Ah Ruchel, if you would have learned it from someone who knows ancient history, as I remember from a course in college, Marduk and Ishtar were dieties (gods) in the Persian world...hence there is a problem with the names per se...hard to believe that our Mordechai and Esther had "secular" names that were the names of treif local gods...but they did...I don't know what it tells us but it sure tells us something.

Ruchel

Fri, Jun 20 2008, 7:33 am

I know... I was surprised too.
But if we think about it... how is it worse than all the Israels called Isidore, gift of Isis?

freidasima

Fri, Jun 20 2008, 11:24 am

Do you know any sabras called Isidore? I know a lot from America, but no one under the age of 75...

On the other hand, we are big here on Nimrods who wasn't exactly a king to emulate, and Omri...they used to be very popular secular and anti religious names here...today they just give the kids foreign names...Tom (tohm, as if meaning "simplicity") or Shir-lee which becomes Shirley in English...

Motek

Fri, Jun 20 2008, 12:43 pm

freidasima wrote:

Well we know about breaking bread over a couple's head from medieval non Jewish manuscripts. Can you find me something before around 1200 that is Jewish?! If so, I eat my words (and the bread!)...

Hadassah was banned from this forum for writing posts like that. How are you related or are you her?

Quote:

Like the rice that the non jews throw after their weddings.

At an aufruf, the chasan is showered with small food items like nuts, as a symbol of fertility.

Crayon210

Fri, Jun 20 2008, 1:59 pm

freidasima wrote:

Do you know any sabras called Isidore? I know a lot from America, but no one under the age of 75...

She meant "what about people named Israel who are also called Isadore".

Tehilla

Fri, Jun 20 2008, 2:04 pm

this thread seems like yet another mockery of Torah lifestyle/rabbis/minhagim/etc etc. not OP, but certain responses.

Ruchel

Fri, Jun 20 2008, 2:26 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

freidasima wrote:

Do you know any sabras called Isidore? I know a lot from America, but no one under the age of 75...

She meant "what about people named Israel who are also called Isadore".

yes, thanks

I can tell Freidasima has no link to Hadassah at all. Nothing in common.