Frum copywriting on websites turn me off

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 5:07 pm

cupcake123 wrote:

I don't know anything about copy writing but as a consumer I loved that campaign made it so real

Bet you wouldn’t have loved it if you were one of those families…

That’s what I’m saying. Powerful and effective, but tone deaf and cringey.

PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 5:35 pm

amother OP wrote:

Anyone know what I'm talking about? When I click on a website and I have to scroll alllll the way down through tons and tons of text, details about how amazing this service or organization etc is, testimonials, when I was interested in the price. Or basic details about how it works. I get that it's like putting milk in the back of the store - the stuff you really want to know is all on the bottom, or you're supposed to be like "Just $5k for all that good stuff? Wow such an amazing deal!" but it just puts me off. So wordy. And I hate when they describe things in cutesy ways and with emojis. It's just a certain vibe that I feel like is popping up more and more...

Rant over

I don't like the endless scrolling but I know I've encountered it on non-Jewish sites too.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 5:37 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

I'm a copywriter. Many of my clients are not Jewish, and most of them are professional businesses (not organizations).

I'm a huge proponent of the "less is more" style and always strongly steer clients to cleaner, lighter copy, especially on homepages, and most agree with me. Long, heavy, drawn-out sites are a turnoff in this elevator-pitch society.

Once in a while I'll run into a client who insists on writing out their entire backstory and every detail of the business, and while we (the web designer and I) work hard to make it more readable, the customer is always right, so sometimes we'll end up with a content-heavy website. It's not always the copywriter's decision.

I've never taken one of the frum copywriting courses (I'm mostly self-taught) but I've always wondered about them!

The problem is, what if the client just wants one page? It might be long.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 5:37 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

Ooh, I can answer this one. The cringiest ones are the ads or campaigns or articles with poor grammar, teen- or kid-style slang (especially when used incorrectly), "fancy" or "edgy" phrases (that don't actually mean what the writer thinks they mean), or off-the-mark copy that's clearly engineered to catch attention but not necessarily appropriate.

One example: there was a campaign in my town for Tomchei Shabbos (I think). There were lawn signs in every neighborhood that said something like "15 families in [this neighborhood] need your help" or something to that effect. I cringed every time because while it was certainly attention-grabbing and effectively conveyed the message that there's a significant number of families relying on this organization - even 15 in your own neighborhood! - I felt terrible for every one of those 15 families who felt ashamed every time they drove past those signs.

There's a lot of DIY, not through a copywriter, copy out there. And coming to you soon: ChatGPT copy.

amother

↑ Taupe

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 5:46 pm

Recently there was a recruiting ad that said ...if you hated your teachers, try a boss.

I was flabbergasted. The word hate is a strong word that is very not classy. And to pair it with teachers in a frum publication. There were other ways to make that point. That was stooping.

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 6:29 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

The problem is, what if the client just wants one page? It might be long.

Yes, we do many sites like that. In fact, I’m working on one right now! They can be more challenging but there are ways to make them reader-friendly: lots of graphics, expandable content, etc. It works best with businesses that are straightforward.

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 6:30 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

There's a lot of DIY, not through a copywriter, copy out there. And coming to you soon: ChatGPT copy.

Coming soon? It’s already here and I can spot it from a mile away Wink

(Don’t tell, but I use it as a starting point sometimes.)

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 6:39 pm

amother Taupe wrote:

What was even the point of that? Leave school and get a job? Work for yourself because bosses are worse than teachers? This is poor copywriting because the message isn't clear LOL

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 6:41 pm

amother Aconite wrote:

I totally agree less is more but it does depend for what. On emails and blog posts, landing pages, and other pages on your website more copy can be good. Right now I'm doing a lot of emails for my company and the data says more is good for emails!

For ads, flyers, homepage, social media, and some emails I do like less. I'm usually a less is more kinda person so it's hard for me to shlep out the copy.

But as you said, what the client wants is what you gotta do.

That's interesting. Blog posts are definitely better when longer (but not too long), but landing pages need to give you the message in bite-size pieces to retain your attention. Other pages can and should be longer. And I don't do much email writing, but I know that I won't read a long marketing email!

amother

↑ Aconite ↓

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 6:44 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

I wouldn't read it either! But the data says this is what sells and gets more clicks. I also write super clickbaity subject lines that make me cringe inside. If that's what the client wants.....

It's so weird to be writing stuff I know I'd never even open, or read.

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 6:48 pm

amother Aconite wrote:

Oh I HATE clickbait. I used to have to do that too. Worst job ever.

amother

↑ Aconite ↓

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 6:48 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

Coming soon? It’s already here and I can spot it from a mile away Wink

(Don’t tell, but I use it as a starting point sometimes.)

Chatgbt can be really helpful. I use it ot for ideas. But it also learns your style of writing and you can fine tune things. Tell it to make it more cliche, less cliche, more adjectives, less dramatic, more personal, stronger, powerful etc. Ask it to write 5 alternative paragraphs to the one you wrote and then take an idea from this one, a sentance here or there.

Somegimes I just word dump a bunch of ideas and words and concepts and ask chat gbt to make it look representable and use that as my start place.

Like "short ad frum luxury glasses, elegant stylish, make it sound like the most in style thing - but don't write too over the top. Highlight it comes in 100 styles etc"

It's a great tool. And it really does learn your style and write better stuff as you go.

amother

↑ Aconite

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 6:50 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

Oh I HATE clickbait. I used to have to do that too. Worst job ever.

I mean thats just the subject lines. But yeah, it's hard to craft a good subject line that doesn't have some elemant of clickbait....

amother

↑ Razzmatazz

Thu, Aug 03 2023, 7:09 pm

amother Aconite wrote:

That’s what I mean by using it as a starting point, though I usually just use it for taglines (“write 10 taglines for xyz” and then I tweak my favorite) and for bios. But I find most of what it generates to be lacking soul.

↑ PinkFridge

Fri, Aug 04 2023, 7:28 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

Landing pages can give you the info in bite-sized pieces but they can still be
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amother

Diamond

Fri, Aug 04 2023, 8:57 am

amother Aconite wrote:

Okay yeah. You mean the copy tribe style.

Listen if it didn't sell it wouldn't be used. I also dislike the style, but there's soooooo many styles of copy and copywriters nowadays so if you are looking one it's not hard to find others who have a different style.

BTW the data shows that longer copy gets more clicks and more buys and more donations. I do copy/content for a company and my boss is investing in me taking more online courses in content and non profit and all types of digital media and I've been reading a lot of articles on it as well - long copy does do better.

It makes me eye roll too, it's soooooo long but data doesn't lie.

I work as a copy writer too. And like short and sweet for emails 50-125 words have the highest response rate from everything I have learned. I would love to see data indicating otherwise. There is a time for longer emails in a sequence. So I guess it depends for what.

Don’t have time to look up much. But a quick google search gave me this

https://www.drip.com/blog/ideal-email-length

https://www.constantcontact.co.....l-be/

https://emailanalytics.com/ide...../amp/

But the truth is the best copy is one that speaks directly onto the consumer. So it feels like you are talking to them. And that’s gonna be totally different for different markets.

And yes I cringe from some of the Frum marketing. But I am sure people cringe at my stuff.

amother

↑ DarkPurple

Fri, Aug 04 2023, 9:17 am

amother Diamond wrote:

Long copy is good for landing pages and SEO articles. Emails should only be as long as they need to be.

mushkamothers

Fri, Aug 04 2023, 11:40 am

amother Diamond wrote:

My emails are 350-600 words and people love them
As always it's the content that counts