Preteen thinks she's all grown up.

amother

Lightblue

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 6:18 pm

amother Gardenia wrote:

Really young children wouldn't annoy me but once they get a bit older and you want to have adult conversation then yes it's bothersome.

I'll give you an example I was once at my aunt's and my cousin left her oldest child there while she went home. She is about the same age as op's daughter, especially we know the mother doesn't like a certain topics are discussed around her, and yes everyone was annoyed that she was just sitting there and listening in.

I think it's okay for children to know that it's not always appropriate to sit with adults. If there is no choice and for example there are no other children her age then no I wouldn't be annoyed, but yes when I go out I want to enjoy myself.

Maybe the ideal would be to never get annoyed and be totally fine with it but I think many adults would care.

Yup, I care. Family reunions are rare, and we look forward to to having relaxing and open discussion when we do get together. Every topic is open for discussion, and we don't want to have to sit and measure our words because there are kids hanging around. I'm not referring to a kid who hangs around for a couple of minutes, then heads off to rejoin her own circle. I'm referring to a kid who parks herself there and wants to be a part of the discussion.

We've had one sibling whose kids tended to park themselves at our table. We found it very annoying for two reasons. First, as per this discussion. We tend to talk openly about adult issues, and we didn't want to mind our words. Second, her kids tended to seat themselves between us, taking up the limited space around the table. This made our conversation flow much more difficult, because some of us were seated too far to hear what was being said at the other end.

We nicely suggested to her multiple times to have her kids sit at their own table. (We have a large family with all ages so they have companions their own age.). I finally got fed up, and took matters into my own hands. I purposely started inappropriate adult like conversations and pretended not to see their mother's dirty looks. She had no choice but to ask her kids to go elsewhere. I did that 2-3 times until she finally got the message, and now it's a non-issue.

Go ahead and throw the tomatoes now.

amother

Ultramarine

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 6:51 pm

amother Lightblue wrote:

Woah. Overall neither my nor dh immediate or extended family are this rigid.

Though come to think of it. Each side has "that" sister.......she's usually rigid about other things too.

amother

Lightblue

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 6:54 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

Woah. Overall neither my nor dh immediate or extended family are this rigid.

Though come to think of it. Each side has "that" sister.......she's usually rigid about other things too.

If you call this rigid, then I guess maybe you're that sister who hoists her beliefs onto the entire family and refuses to accommodate others.

For the record, I was thanked by almost all other siblings. They didn't call me rigid, then thanked me for the courage to speak up. No one appreciated having minor children hang on to our every word.

amother

Stoneblue

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 8:01 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

I mean I had read every single book in our small frum community library at least twice, and I was so bored. I read book at the public library but I got bored of them too. I would go through so many in a week....

I'm just curious, if your child expressed interest you would tell them they aren't allowed, and hide them? Would you hide all your adult sefarim and books too?

I've caught my teenage son, more than once, going through my personal book collection "hidden" in my bedroom

amother

Gardenia

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 8:55 pm

amother Plum wrote:

If adults think they’re talking privately at such an event all I can say is “little pitchers have big ears” —no such thing as privacy in such a setting

It's not about privacy. Obviously we would not be discussing things that we would absolutely not want them to hear. But it's uncomfortable and annoying to have adult discussion in front of children. It's fine if they hear something here and there but just hanging on and listening is just annoying. You have to send to yourself much more.

amother

DarkGreen

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 9:11 pm

amother Lightblue wrote:

Consider those tomatoes thrown. This is so nasty. I'm beginning to appreciate my simple family politics. I'm really grateful for my nice, kid-friendly, understanding family.

amother

Glitter

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 9:14 pm

amother DarkGreen wrote:

Consider those tomatoes thrown. This is so nasty. I'm beginning to appreciate my simple family politics. I'm really grateful for my nice, kid-friendly, understanding family.

My family is kid friendly and understanding. We also understand that adults sometimes need space and it's ok to teach kids that they should hang out with people their age vs hanging around the adults and joining adult conversation. It's teaching manners and social skills. It's not a contradiction to kid friendly and understanding.

amother

Lightblue

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 9:33 pm

amother DarkGreen wrote:

Consider those tomatoes thrown. This is so nasty. I'm beginning to appreciate my simple family politics. I'm really grateful for my nice, kid-friendly, understanding family.

I think it's rather more nasty to continue to seat your kids at the adult table, despite being asked not to that multiple times, and even more so when you don't tell them to get up to make place for their aunts. How is ok for an adult to have to sit at the end of the table (or have to move to a separate table), away from all the conversation, while the kids seat themselves at the center of the table?

amother

Sand

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 9:38 pm

amother Lightblue wrote:

Because the kids want to sit next to their mother? Because just because there's a child their age it doesn't mean they like them or want to play with them just because their mother tells them to.
Because I as an adult would rather choose whether to sit next to my friend, my sister, or my mother and my children deserve the same courtesy to be allowed to sit next to their mother or grandmother at the Shabbos table or Chasuna.
Because so many children nowadays have hidden disabilities that their parents might not choose to share- anxiety, ASD, that make it very uncomfortable to just be sent at will away so the adults can talk.

amother

DarkGreen

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 9:42 pm

amother Sand wrote:

Well said. Thank you.

amother

Glitter

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 9:51 pm

amother Sand wrote:

If your kid wants to sit with you and can't sit with kids their age, then you go sit with them at the kids table, instead of them taking up a seat meant for an adult. I had done this already. It is not fair to the other adults at the table to insist that your child sits with them.

amother

Zinnia

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 1:54 pm

amother Sand wrote:

You're describing my kids. Often I end up sitting at the kids' table. That way my kids feel cared for and I dont feel like my kids are taking away seats from other adults. It's very annoying to miss the adult conversation, but that's sometimes life with kids.

BrisketBoss

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 1:58 pm

amother Zinnia wrote:

But do the other kids want an adult there? It's a question. How do we really know what everyone wants, and whose preferences should be higher priority?

BrisketBoss

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 4:48 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

Kids who want to have conversations that adults shouldn't be part of is another story altogether (10/11 yo)
Anyway, if it's socially off the daughter won't want her mother to stay there with her after a few minutes

Of course kids want to have conversations not intended for adults. Why should that be less respected than women's desire to speak about....well, what is this highly inappropriate wedding topic? All I've come up with is childbirth.