Nursery son won't participate

amother

Thu, Oct 19 2023, 3:01 pm

Hi. My 3.5 ds started school this yr for the first time. He's having a hard time. He goes every day happily bh and is looking forward but at school he won't talk to anyone, he won't sit at the table with the other kids. He won't use the bathroom ( because he can't pull up and down his pants and he doesn't want the morahs help). I'm not sure how to help him. The teacher told me they don't want to force to participate because he doesn't seem like the type to appreciate that. But in all the videos he teacher is sending, my son is just sitting in the corner by himself. What do I do?

amother

DarkGreen

Thu, Oct 19 2023, 3:13 pm

amother OP wrote:

Does he have anxiety?

amother

Pearl

Thu, Oct 19 2023, 3:15 pm

Honestly I would just wait it out. The morah should keep encouraging and asking if he wants to participate and you should keep trying to sort of encourage from home by saying oh it looks like your class did XYZ did you also get to do such a fun thing? Hopefully he'll join in.

I had two kids like that.
By the first one after about 2 weeks the very inexperienced teacher basically started ignoring my kid. It was horrible. He was very shy and needed encouragement and she kept saying to just ignore it completely. I still remember, it was around November and the teacher said they were baking cookies and told all the kids to bring in shapes and that was one thing that my son was so excited about.
We picked out the chanukkah shapes and I sent them in and when I came to pick him up I asked him how it was and he said that his teacher just skipped over him and didn't even give himself a piece of dough!

I then had a different child like that and the teacher had a totally different approach where although she did not force the kid she did not stop asking to join.
He was always shy but after a month he was at least part of the class.

Rutabaga

Thu, Oct 19 2023, 8:53 pm

amother OP wrote:

Baby steps. It's still pretty early on in the school year considering how much time he was off for Yom Tov. It's a good sign that he's happy to go every day. Does he ever talk about school? Does he have anything he particularly enjoys?

About the bathroom issues: is he holding it in or having accidents? If the only problem is that he can't pull his own pants down and up, then an easy fix would be to buy him pants that he can manage on his own. Forget whatever is fashionable and buy him elastic waist sweatpants or whatever else will work for him at the moment.

amother

Tulip

Thu, Oct 19 2023, 9:40 pm

The bathroom issue concerns me. Can you practice him pulling his pants up and down at home? Maybe get easier pants so he can be independent...a 3.5 year old should he able to pull his pants up and down himself. That is probably a source of anxiety for him too. Imagine how you would feel if you couldn't go to the bathroom all day.

Brit in Israel

Fri, Oct 20 2023, 1:18 am

Regarding toilet, both my kids at that age were having issues, at home they never did, besides for making sure the pants are easy pull up and down, at home practice with him, let him pull down as you say how big he is that he can manage
You also have to talk the toilet routine with him,
When you take or fetch ask him to show you where the toilet is, tell him now that he is big when he feels he needs he will need to go on his own or ask a Morah,
With my son he was having accidents coz he was worried if he goes he won't manage to aim in as the toilet were of a different height than at home, I realized that and said that as long as he goes to the toilet it doesn't matter where he aims even if he misses the bowl coz he went to the toilet. It straight away stopped.
With my daughter it was more of a fear of missing what the Morah would say or do with the class but once spoken out we found a solution.
If it worried of not managing to wipe tell him as long as he makes he should try and you will do it at home after, you will have some dirty underwear but first fix the making problem.
Each kid is different, my nephew had anxiety of getting locked in the bathroom and it wasn't sorted until a much later age where the problem grew with the imagination.
Please do something now don't wait the fear will only grow!

About joining, tell the Morah not force but to include, for example
When giving the kids a paper to color, put a paper for your son and say X here is your paper for when you are ready to do it or to come and watch and then move on to the next kid.
If he feels included he will more likely be willing to slowly join.
But if he needs the bathroom he will just stay in one place putting all his focus on keeping dry.

Good Luck OP
I hope something here helps.
The main thing is don't show him you are frustrated or upset!!!!!!!

dena613

Fri, Oct 20 2023, 1:55 am

I know this is repetitive, but it's so important

1) he needs to be confident in his ability to easily and independently use the bathroom from start to finish.
Even if that means he'll wear pants you don't like
https://www.carters.com/search.....sz=53

They aren't stylish, but they are functional

These pants
https://www.marksandspencer.co.....dex=0
Look very shabbosdik, but the fly front is fake in the lower sizes. No zipper and button. Only elastic, even though it looks like big boy dress pants. My boys did really well with M&S pants when they were young.

2) you should reach out, either in your community, or virtually, here, and find therapists or coaches or whatever the title is who work with selective mutism in your location.
It is so so crucial to catch selective mutism when the child is young. It only gets harder as they get older.
Post your location and I'm sure imas here will try to help with referrals.

Hatzlacha rabba!!!

amother

Maize

Fri, Oct 20 2023, 4:02 am

I had a son who didn't speak for an entire year. We discovered that the teacher was putting on incredible pressure. If you don't answer with everyone, you don't get to do the project etc.
The following year, he had a rebbe who told me, until Chanuka, don't talk to me about it. His approach was to hold out a hand to my son and take him with him whatever they were doing. So if they were doing circle time, he'd hold out a hand and lead him to sit next to him. If he was displaying something, he'd give him the other end to hold. He basically had zero expectations of him to speak and communicated with him without words. By Chanuka the problem had disappeared.

As a tutor though for older students, I can tell you to keep your eyes open. Often children who really keep to themselves in this way, have a hard time with other skills further on. My son needed a lot of social skills help as he became a teen.

Don't be too quick to label selective mutism on a 3 yr old. The most important thing is not to let him label himself as a person who doesn't speak at school. So don't talk to him about it. Don't ask him. Don't let it become a big thing. Make it very offhand, if someone says something say, Yes, Yossi will talk to the Rebbe when he wants to. Build him up so he feels he can do this, believe in him.

About the bathroom, like everyone else here I would say he has to be able to manage his pants on his own. My 2.5 yr old can manage. Is it possible his pants are tight? Buy him something comfy and easy to manage.

Another thing that can help is introducing him to one of the kids outside school and making them bathroom buddies. They go at the same time (obv different cubicles) and wait to wash hands together outside.

amother

Celeste

Fri, Oct 20 2023, 5:42 am

I had this with my 1.5 year old. I know that is younger, but I think it is very relevant.

I had something very similar and so I pulled my child out and put her somewhere else. Within 2-3 days she was talking and participating and happy in the new place.

Everyone told me to wait it out and I regret every extra day I sent her, her self confidence and independence were affected and took a few months to rebuild.

But you have to know your child too. My child was very verbal, very sociable, and very playful. So her sitting on the side by herself all day and not letting teachers interact with her was extremely atypical for her. If your kid is a loner and quiet in any new situation, them his behavior is less extreme and maybe waiting it out is the answer. Trust your gut. You know your child best.

amother

Pear

Fri, Oct 20 2023, 6:55 am

My son also was very hesitant when he was in the 3s in Gan. It took him a very long time to warm up and I think he probably wasn't speaking to the adults. He's still very young and this seems normal. I would try to have some play dates to help him develop a connection to the other kids. Maybe brainstorm with the Morahs about bathroom situation. My son had a stuffed animal that he played with in class every day that probably offered some support. It did help to bring "show and tell" items and maybe his class has something like that. We were extremely concerned and it took a few years before he truly felt comfortable in school. BH, today he is a well adjusted young adult who has many friends and attended a top yeshiva and university. He is still a quiet person in a crowd and can be slow to warm up in new situations, but he came so far. Give your little guy a big hug and I hope things become easier for him.

Shopmiami49

Fri, Oct 20 2023, 7:11 am

1) Make sure he gets comfortable with the bathroom
2) Arrange playdates outside of school
3) Write him a short social story to read with him that will provoke discussion (Once there was a biy named Yitzy or wtvr your ds name is, and he went to school. At school, the morah said "It's time to come to the circle!" The children started to come but Yitzy said on a chair in the corner. - Pause here and say "I wonder why Yitzy didn't want to join?" and see what ds says)
4) See how he is in a week or 2 and then reevaluate