Kiruv boss badmouths people he pretends to like

amother

↑ Babypink ↓

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:38 am

amother OP wrote:

The bottom line is that he should not be badmouthing anyone regardless of who they are.

He is there for the husband who is a yid.

I agree he shouldn't be badmouthing anyone, I don't like his double standards either. But it has nothing to do with him being a Rabbi. He's not her Rabbi and he has no Halachik obligation toward her or her kids.
I think the faster it becomes clear to children of such marriages the faster we can solve the problem of intermarriage.

amother

↑ Stone ↓

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:39 am

amother Blue wrote:

I find this really surprising. Why would it be an issue Halachickly that non Jews think they’re Jewish?

Additionally, halachickly why is it more severe that non Jewish children think they’re Jewish, than forcing a conversion… of SEVERAL people. Non of whom will likely ever be completely frum?

It’s very serious for a non Jew to believe they’re Jewish. It can cause lots of complications and pain to that child if they believe they are Jewish and want to marry a Jew (among other things). There’s no such thing in Halacha as a “forced conversion”. If someone is not converting out of their own personal desire, the conversion isn’t valid and isn’t considered a kosher conversion. If someone is “forced to convert “ they actually haven’t converted. No orthodox establishment would perform such a conversion let alone recognize them as Jewish

amother

↑ Babypink ↓

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:42 am

amother Stone wrote:

I agree that this Kiruv organization can't be an orthodox one. It doesn't make sense.
No orthodox organization teaches non Jewish kids to be Jewish. If the Jewish spouse wants to reconnect there are programs for that and I'm sure sometimes there are events that they can bring their family, but to cater to non Jewish kids? Nope.

amother

↑ Brown

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:45 am

amother Strawberry wrote:

I agree it’s not mainstream to force conversion. Something is not adding up.

My son was involved in kiruv, and they were aware that some children were not halachically Jewish. They were not allowed to actively teach those kids, they were allowed to participate because then their Jewish parent would have some education. From my experience and my son's kiruv experience, I do not think all of the organizations that the OP mentioned follow the psak she supplied.

amother

↑ Babypink ↓

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:48 am

amother Brown wrote:

Did they allow these kids to join on the condition that the non Jewish parent or child converts?
Judaism isn't a religion goes around asking for converts let alone force people to convert.

amother

↑ Stone ↓

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:48 am

amother Brown wrote:

There’s no way it’s a “psak”. Please let’s call it a policy as a psak implies a competent posek gave this answer and that is HIGHLY unlikely. My whole point is if an organization is saying this is their policy/psak then it’s obvious the entire organization is a fraudulent scam so it makes sense the “Rabbi” of the organization would act in this way.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:49 am

amother Strawberry wrote:

I agree it’s not mainstream to force conversion. Something is not adding up.

There is no forcing conversion.

I said clearly, there are non-Jewish kids in the program and they can stay until 12/13. If the parents want their kids to stay longer, the mom needs to have converted by then. They can agree and join the program, or not agree and not join. No one is forcing them to join, and there are MANY similar programs in the area who are not frum and would have no issue if the mother never converts. They have many options. Seeing as that was not the main point of my post, I did not go further into details. But, it's a family program, so if over the course of years of being part of this org, and the family has not decided to become observant to the point where they want to live a frum lifestyle, then the rabbi can not oversee the bar/bat mitzvah. No forcing, no coercing. It's only brought up once when they apply for the kids program and never again. It's brought up as in saying "halachically you are not Jewish and the kids are not either. If you want to have them in this program, it's with the understanding that by the age of 12, the parents and kids will all be jewish". Along those lines, not a direct quote.

amother

↑ Strawberry

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:50 am

amother Stone wrote:

Exactly. I think his attitude is only a small problem. And the way he’s running it is the actual problem.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:50 am

amother Stone wrote:

Post under your username and I'll pm you and tell you the name of the orgs, if you really want to know.

amother

↑ Stone

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:51 am

amother OP wrote:

Seeing as people have taken what I clearly said is a vent, and are picking at one aspect of it, and this is completely irrelevant to my post, I am not going to explain the psak. Also, seeing as I'm not the posek who gave it, it's not even on me to understand it.

The point is the whole institution is obviously a scam , if that is their policy. Knowing that policy would be enough for me to know what type of ppl run the place and I would run like the plague and find a proper place of work.

NechaMom

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:53 am

amother OP wrote:

Just venting.

I work for a kiruv org. My boss, the rabbi of the org, often makes fun of and mocks some of the people who come to our programming. Specifically, the non-Jewish spouses who attend with their Jewish spouse. Per the psak of the program, a non-Jewish mother and her children can attend if they are being raised Jewish and if the mother promises to convert by the time the oldest child is 12/13. Spoiler alert - in the 10 years I've worked for him, it's literally never happened. They drop out before the child needs the bar/bat mitzvah, they act surprised and offended.

Our program is somewhat of a status symbol in a specific group so we get a lot of these families.

I am the children's programming director and I with with the rabbi's married daughter.

This past week, a non-Jewish mother came to get her kids (obviously non-Jewish). The rabbi and his daughter were thrilled to see her, hugged, took selfies, etc. They shmoozed, then mom and kids left. Then the rabbi comes to tell us the mom (who he called a shiksa) just told him she plans to get a tattoo saying "my soul belongs to Israel" and he just nodded and said nothing. And they laughed and said how dumb she is.

I was so taken aback. I've heard him use that word before to describe her and other women like her. But who cares if she gets a tattoo? She isn't Jewish and has no plans to become Jewish. I said as much. I also said that back when I was a mikvah attendant, MANY women had Jewish themed tattoos, it just shows how far they came in their journey.

His two-faced personality makes me sick and wonder what he's saying about me when I'm not there. He badmouths many of the parents in the program, not just the non-Jewish ones.

This is a part-time job for me and I have a full-time job also. I find a lot of satisfaction doing this work, as my main job is in a non-frum office doing work I can't stand. Working with the Jewish kids is the highlight of my work-week.

Also, the pay is something I won't get anywhere else where I live for this work.

I'm just venting.

This Rabbi is definitely a one off and should be reported. Can you find out who’s his supervisor? If it’s Chabad there are definitely higher ups to talk to. His behavior is outrageous!

amother

↑ OP

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:54 am

amother Stone wrote:

Please share who the Rabbanim are. If they are respected Rabbanim in mainstream orthodoxy what is the secret? Maybe we will learn something.

Again, this was never the point of my post. I made that so clear. If you REALLY want to know, post under your screen name and I'll pm you.

I was posting to vent and I guess for support. Thanks to the few who gave it to me, I appreciate it.

mom24b ↓

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:55 am

amother OP wrote:

Post under your username and I'll pm you and tell you the name of the orgs, if you really want to know.

You can PM me, or not. I don’t really care about the organizations name. I’m trying to open your eyes to the fact that the whole organization you are working for is fraudulent. This policy goes against every tenet of orthodox conversion. If they have a policy that blatantly contradicts Torah then what do you expect the administration and rabbi to act like. The entire operation is unacceptable. It’s no surprise their behaviors aren’t acceptable either.

↑ mom24b

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 11:59 am

amother OP wrote:

The kids aren’t Jewish even if the mother converts. Saying the mother has to convey by the time child is bar/bat mitzvah makes no sense. The mother converting doesn’t make the kids Jewish if it’s done before they are bar mitzvah. something in the way your presenting it doesn’t make sense