Imperfect megillah reading...by a MAN

amother

Impatiens

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 9:23 am

I have asked my Rav about leining the Megillah myself before. He said under extenuating circumstances if there's no man to read, it's OK. But should not be done as a l'chatchila. Something about it being ok min hadin, but because the reform started having female Torah readings, we should stay away from it.
It did happen twice that I was in a situation where there was no man to read at all and I leined for myself and my sister. I asked a rav in the moment as well.
There are also women who go to read in female detention centers where no men are allowed in.

essie14

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 9:25 am

amother Raspberry wrote:

Did you read my post before replying?
I wrote that I don't know, but it's something I've always known, and added that I wonder if any mainstream Rabbanim allow it.

If you don't know why did you answer so emphatically?
I've heard megilla read by women for over 10 years. I promise you I was yotzei.
They were always in shul, from the main Bima, sanctioned by the Rabbi of the shul.
We already discussed this weeks ago, no reason to rehash it.

amother

Clear

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:03 am

I would hope that a man AND a woman would both learn the halachos before leining. A kof vs chof, kamatz vs patach, etc. will generally not make a difference, unless they change the meaning of the word (there are a few non-obvious ones).

I'm not sure what this post proves.

I posted extensively in the thread you're referencing, and "making minor mistakes" was not something I brought up. Anyone unprepared will make a lot of mistakes which may invalidate the Megillah, that has nothing to do with gender.

I don't like that it became a "feminist" thing and specifically intended to look different than a standard leining.

amother

Raspberry

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 12:48 pm

essie14 wrote:

I stand corrected. I apologise, I asked and was told that Rashi says (am not sure where) that women can Lein Megilla.

amother

Narcissus

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 1:04 pm

amother Raspberry wrote:

I don't know, it's something I've always known like blowing shofar, leining and chazan etc. I'm surprised to see on here that some say it's ok for ladies to lein Megilla. Wondering if mainstream Rabbanim allow it.

Women can’t blow shofar for women?

amother

Bluebonnet

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 1:06 pm

amother Narcissus wrote:

Women can’t blow shofar for women?

I believe they can blow for men as well but not 100% sure

DrMom

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 1:10 pm

amother Raspberry wrote:

Women can blow shofar.

amother

Bone

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 1:19 pm

Amy rav said any chiyuv that men and women are equally chayiv, men can be motzi women and women can be motzi men equally

camp123

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:57 am

amother Impatiens wrote:

This is basically the only reason women don't lein megillah for other women.... We don't know where it will lead..in say this bc that's a fact, but I don't think it needs to lead any where except women leining the megillah which is perfectly fine

amother

DarkKhaki

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 4:59 am

Woman leining from Torah is more of an issue because of birchas hatorah. There are ways to get around it. Plus I think there are halachic issues with a nidah and a safer Torah, not sure how most pasken these days. https://www.yoatzot.org/questi.....1276/

amother

Lightcoral

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 5:31 am

Forget about leining. We should start discussing having a woman shochet.
And before you start screaming and wailing and gnashing your teeth about how women can make mistakes, there are MEN who make mistakes too. So there. Anyone who disagrees with anything I say is two faced.

I personally would find it very empowering knowing that both my cow and my shochet (shochetes?) were female.

amother

Lightblue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 5:58 am

Judaism isn’t about making you feel empowered. It’s about subjugating your will to the will of G-d and bringing your soul close to its source.
What turns you into a גיבורה, what makes you powerful, is controlling your own yetzer, your own inner desires, thoughts and inclinations.
Realizing there’s a higher power and the planet doesn’t revolve around you is the first step in avodas Hashem.
ראשית חכמה יראת ה׳

This has nothing to do with the halachic implications of women reading megilla but everything to do with the misguided attitudes that show up in these threads.

amother

Holly

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 6:04 am

There are mistakes, and then there are leinings where it seems like the baal koreh didn't even bother to prepare. Maybe because he figured "it's only women"?

amother

Hunter

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 6:15 am

Tachlis: Yes, to my knowledge, it's about what it can lead to. I used to be very skeptical about explanations like that, in general and about this, and went to a women's reading when I was a teen. I also went to a simchas torah where women received a torah to dance with; there was a whole shiur beforehand on the whys and hows. I decided after both that it wasn't for me but for those who wanted, great.

And then as the years went by, I watched what happened. The communities I grew up in and knew well who embraced this have changed, a lot. Many more things have been added or changed. Yes, there may be a halachic work around for each, some more tenuous than others. Some have none that I know of, and bodies of rabbanim like the RCA are not ok with them.

Others may be. But there was definitely a trajectory, and the megillah reading was the first significant step. Does it have to be? No. Is it always? No. Can it be? Definitely. Often? Likelihood? That's goong to depend who you ask.

amother

Hunter

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 6:19 am

amother Holly wrote:

There are mistakes, and then there are leinings where it seems like the baal koreh didn't even bother to prepare. Maybe because he figured "it's only women"?

Don't know this situation, but sometimes someone gets roped on last minute. And sometimes someone thinks there will be someone there correcting him and that person either isn't there or doesn't do a good job. Or the baal koreh does a great job every year and this year got caught up in something and didn't realize he couldn't skimp on the review.

In a shul setting that was my shul, I would say something discretely to the rav or gabbai.

amother

Chicory

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 7:15 am

amother OP wrote:

Not to bring up a sore topic that was either removed or locked (I couldn't find the thread so I don't know which it is)...

To those women who are skeptical about the ability of other women to read megillah correctly: last night I went to a regular reading by a male baal koreh because it was bad weather and the reading of, by, and for women was further away. I spotted several mistakes in his leining. Small things like reading a kaf instead of a chaf, or a patach instead of a shva. Does this invalidate the reading? Maybe, maybe not. Does it change the meaning of the word? Possibly, possibly not.

The rabbi didn't correct him, so I imagine the errors weren't fatal--or maybe the rabbi's hearing isn't all that good. But they were, nevertheless, inaccuracies. If a woman were to make theose same mistakes, all the ladies here screaming about how a woman can't lein megillah would pounce upon them as proof of their opinion. And even though the melody isn't critical, this baal koreh slurred the trope so you couldn't tell what te'amim he was reading. Again, maybe not fatal, but also something the anti-women's leining crowd would wave aloft as proof that women ought not to be doing this. I should have gone to the women's reading, where the reading is both accurate and melodic.

It's true what they say, a woman has to perform twice as well as a man to be considered half as good.

It is extremely likely that the "mistakes" you heard did not invalidate the reading for two reasons"
1) were you using a koren tanach? If not, the mistake was likely in your megilla. 2) if it doesnt change the meaning of the word - and before starting a thread like this you should educate yourself on what does and what doesn't

By the way, when going to the late megilla readings (usually just women there but sometimes some men too) it was very stressful because actual words were missed or said wrong - even by very very seasoned leiners, and I would have to be very much on my toes to call out the error from the women's section. Sometimes the issue is that the baal koreh is going too fast - so he makes actual mistakes. Since then, I don't go to these readings. My husband leins for me if I cannot go at the usual time - which I don't do unless it is a year like this one where one doesn't go into the reading while fasting - I can't do that. Listening to his (slow) leining and correcting his mistakes has taught me the two rules I listed above.

amother

Chicory

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 7:24 am

I also am considering learning how to lein megilla for myself so that I don't need to rely on others. (My husband has two kosher megillot.) I'm not about to borrow a Torah to lein zachor....