Modern Orthodox Communities

shabbatiscoming

Thu, May 02 2024, 3:59 am

amother OP wrote:

Thanks for clarifying. He doesn't cover his head or wear tzitzis. He wears a cap when goes to visit my grandparents out of respect. He doesn't keep shabbos now but by basic I meant he would do some form of kashrus, taharas hamishpacha and shabbos type.

If your brother does not keep shabbat, he is NO type of orthodox.
Modern orthodox people keep shabbat. So you are not really looking for an orthodox community.

There are communities of jews who have stopped being frum. That sounds more like what your brother is.

Please look up what modern orthodox ACTUALLY means. Because you are far off base with it.

Reality

Thu, May 02 2024, 4:44 am

amother SandyBrown wrote:

Large segments are frummer? Curious in what areas they are frummer. And who are these large segments. The quiet part out loud? This is some sort of secret? This got very dramatic. Would love to have this backed up with facts.

There are large segments of the MO world who are machshiv Torah and are koveah ittim. Why don't you visit the YU kollel if you want to get to know the married men who are sitting and learning full time. Ask to be introduced to their frum and learned wives etc.

I'm sure I don't have to introduce you to all the "black hat" people who are frum in name only, the people who dress the dress and never crack open a sefer etc.

Frum life is not so black and white, no pun intended.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, May 02 2024, 5:09 am

Parts of Boca Raton. You can live in certain areas there the way you like, and be part of the Shul and Community. (Religious Rabbi and very accepting of every Jew.).

amother

DarkMagenta

Thu, May 02 2024, 5:29 am

I mean, in our huge MO shul we wouldn't kick him out (unless he was disruptive) but if someone new came to shul without wearing a kippa and said he doesn't really keep shabbos/kashrut he wouldn't exactly be welcome except by the kiruv families. Especially if he is "making yerida" from whatever black hat establishment he is from. I mean, my husband might invite him home once but if he took his kippa off in the house, refused to say kiddush or join in the seuda with divrei torah/act respectfully or break shabbos in our home he wouldn't be invited twice unless there was a clear reason the rav asked us to support someone going through a religious crisis. And we'd do a lot of explaining to kids about why some people behave like this.

Our hats range from black hat/velvet kippa to crocheted, and women from sheital to head wraps or hats. A man coming to shul without anything on their head would be way off base unless they were someone's guest at a simcha and would be supported into appropriate behavior for a shul and someone would take them under their wing, give them a kippa and easy reader siddur and guide them through the tefillah.

Perhaps he could try out one of the chilled chassidish communities??
Or just go live anywhere with some Jewish families and a kosher shop (if he cares). And work out what he wants.

Isn't he old enough to be sorting this out himself? Or is there another motivation in asking this here?

amother

Gardenia

Thu, May 02 2024, 7:29 am

amother DarkMagenta wrote:

I dont think OP meant that he refuses to cover his head ever. If he puts on a cap for grandparents, then presumably he'd wear a kippah in shul. I understood her as just saying that he doesn't cover his head in daily life.

amother

Valerian

Thu, May 02 2024, 7:34 am

amother SandyBrown wrote:

I am from the "black hat" crowd and I agree with Reality. Just because someone is born into a certain community it doesn't make them more religious necessarily.

amother

PlumPink

Thu, May 02 2024, 7:48 am

We have friends who went that way and moved to Teaneck. I wonder if it’s working out for them, actually, because many people in Bergen County are on their way up on observance and these people are on their way down. At first glance you would think they could all meet in the middle, but why would the average law firm partner who listens to Daf Yomi on his drive to work have much in common with my friends who are pierced and drugged out?

amother

Thu, May 02 2024, 8:06 am

singleagain wrote:

Agreed with this.

Also, as an aside... OP you wrote "He doesn't keep much, would keep basic halachos if he had a reason to. Like if he met a girl who wanted it. Very sure only wants to marry a Jewish girl"

As a Jewish girl looking for a husband... I would be cautious about someone who decided to live his life based on what I wanted. Instead of living his life as he wants, and then meeting someone on his majority wavelength, and then compromising as any couple should.

I know I would feel really not good if I knew my husband was only being religious bc I wanted him to be... It's one reason I backed off in one case

I hear u. Good point. I'll discuss it with him.

amother

DarkMagenta

Thu, May 02 2024, 8:12 am

amother Gardenia wrote:

Then that isn't very MO to be honest. I don't know any MO (except lapsed) who don't cover their head as baseline

amother

Thu, May 02 2024, 8:14 am

I'm sorry to those who I've offended by not understanding what modern Orthodox is. It honestly wasn't my intention. I said right away that I don't understand the nuances. He doesnt want the OTD communities. He needs a new job and thought now might be a good time to relocate. He tried some random cities in the past but felt he wanted someplace with a Jewish presence and didn't know where to go. I've sent him the names of the cities that were recommended and I will let him run with that and he'll have to figure it out for himself. Thank you everyone for your help!

amother

Gardenia

Thu, May 02 2024, 8:31 am

amother DarkMagenta wrote:

Then that isn't very MO to be honest. I don't know any MO (except lapsed) who don't cover their head as baseline

There are plenty of people who attend MO shuls and participate socially in MO communities who don't meet normative MO observance standards in certain ways. Whether they are lapsed, FFB chilled, BT's in process, struggling, or whatever. This area is no different.

singleagain

Thu, May 02 2024, 8:39 am

amother Gardenia wrote:

Yes, he will be accepted into the community. But he should not identify as MO, especially if he's looking to get married as I said .. I would not feel comfortable to marry someone who doesn't keep shabbat for himself but would for me.

amother

Lemon

Thu, May 02 2024, 8:40 am

amother Honeydew wrote:

Parts of Boca Raton. You can live in certain areas there the way you like, and be part of the Shul and Community. (Religious Rabbi and very accepting of every Jew.).

Second this.

Or Riverdale, Teaneck or the city UWS or UES, parts of Long Island outside of the five towns or possibly he’d fit in there too/Great Neck/Hewlett Harbor all have welcoming shuls
Those might be pricey areas though 🤪

amother

Sage

Thu, May 02 2024, 8:58 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

he sounds "traditional"
traditional people might go to moderen orthodox shuls, schools but they arent orthodox.
my MO sefardi friend had a hard time finding a husband because many were either traditional or more right wing then she wanted.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, May 02 2024, 9:06 am

amother Sage wrote:

Yes, im aware what traditional is, my husband grew up in south africa.
I was explaining how her brother is NOT modern orthodox.

Charnie123

Thu, May 02 2024, 9:07 am

It sounds like your brother is more flexidox which is an accurate label that ironically people hate…I used to be somewhat flexidox. It means partially orthodox but not all in on the larger things like Shabbos (example may use phone while alone) and not by accident but also has a heart for Orthodox Judaism and is possibly wanting to be more observant but struggling, or grew up orthodox and doesn’t culturally feel comfortable in the secular world. I think the term should become more accepted because it would probably help people meet who want a more frum marriage but aren’t as frum single…he may find a girl like him or a genuinely modox girl who isn’t too intense and is a positive influence. Sorry for the long side bar.

People may bash me for this but as someone who grew up modern orthodox shomer Shabbos but also my mom wore pants, the way people call modern orthodox now frustrates me. Modern orthodox people who are genuinely observant feel like non modox observant Jews bash them, but that’s because formerly frum people call themselves modern orthodox when they are really more like traditional. This is in no offense to your brother. But it sounds like he is more traditional but wants an orthodox life but has a hard time doing it alone so he’s “semi observant”. I was this way for a while but I realized I ultimately really wanted to be frum and was just struggling with the loneliness. I became more frum than I even grew up and got married—in my thirties, not young. I got married in the last few years. And I also was in shidduchim so I see this modern orthodox term thrown out a lot and nowadays it doesn’t necessarily mean observant. Ironically it probably comes from the idea people who were yeshivish/chasidish etc who didn’t understand that genuine modern orthodox still means genuinely shomer Shabbos, kosher, minyan, taharas mishpacha etc. sorry for that vent. Even my yeshivish born husband doesn’t understand that and it took him time to understand my background. And nowadays modern orthodox often means fully frum but will watch tv wife covers hair etc. ….

So he may really be good in a place where there’s a true modox presence and a positive influence compared to a super singles community. I am a New Yorker so here’s my ideas:

1-Crown Heights, Brooklyn. There’s a lot of singles of different levels and a large singles shul that’s orthodox but very eclectic and I’m sure many mixed levels of observance there called Chevra Ahavas Yisroel. There’s also Chabad. And restaurants etc. It does have the grimy crimey NY vibe but people love it

2-Flatbush/Midwood Brooklyn. While it’s overall Yeshivish culture it’s very colorful in terms of singles, like there’s many singles who grew up chasidish or yeshivish and aren’t as observant, some shomer Shabbos some not. There’s not one cohesive shul really bc it’s a large community but I’m from this area and also lived here single within the last five years. I kept myself non anon so you can DM me if you want more info about it. I’m not a recruiter I just lived here for years while single and I was overall happy here as I had friends of different hashkafa and ultimately there are a few modox Shuls but tons of kosher foods and the yeshivish culture that my modox family (not saying all are like this but mine was) kind of frowned upon ended up being a positive influence and led me to becoming more like sort of yeshivish frum but not quite regular yeshivish if that makes sense!

3-South Florida. The entire area is inundated with singles as well as families. Surfside/Bal Harbour are both expensive and higher concentration of singles. But the entire area is pretty close by car and huge.

4-Teaneck, NJ. It’s huge and close to the city and a large modox presence as well as other hashkafa but overall it’s genuinely orthodox modox nice place and warm. I hear it’s been expanding singles wise.

5-Upper West Side, New York. I groan about this place bc I always hated it while single as I’m so not a Manhattan fan and a social scene fan yet I also knew it’s a place where there’s a lot of singles who are shomer Shabbos. It’s a huge singles community with only a few families who host. I found it to be somewhat cliquey but some modox people love it. There are also lots of flexidox people. As well as modox frum and Machmir. There’s several Shuls and Chabad and overall the only shomer Shabbos singles community. Some people meet and get married here. It can also be kind of a party culture. It’s also very expensive and most ppl have roommates. It’s one of those places that can be great or awful.

6-Washington Heights or Upper East Side New York. I am not as familiar with the specifics and it’s not as much a scene as Upper West but close enough for people to visit and then escape and there are smaller singles groups in the communities. I think Washington Heights has a more warm and more observant crowd and more family heavy but also its own charm and convenience. UES has Chabad and also a nice Sephardic presence and Sephardic Shuls and I know single Sephardic guys and girls like the East side for this reason. It’s also nicer and more levels of Judaism and more expensive but also more posh than The Heights.

7-Riverdale NY. Probably mostly families but it’s a genuine Modox place. The thing about NY is that it’s all fairly accessible and at most events for singles there were people from all over the five Boros and close by.

8-Jackson NJ or Toms River NJ. They are kind of like more out of the box Lakewood areas but more chilled and friendly. Many families.

9-Pomona, NY. I hear a lot of singles and more modox families are gravitating here. It’s part of the greater Monsey area but not classic Monsey.

10-Five Towns, NY. It’s super diverse and lots of families but I think pockets of singles. And it’s very mixed religiously.

Hope that was helpful. Feel free to PM

amother

Lemon

Thu, May 02 2024, 9:12 am

Lots of traditional guys find their yiddishkeit once they have a family. We know lots who didn’t keep much very traditional and send to the day school and go to shul events,
their kids inspire them to go to shul occasionally for Rosh Hashana, Yom Kipper or go to a family kiddush luncheon

Any MO shul has these families.

But as a single guy it’s much harder being frum with the world around us as it is (They tend to live in a singles community like the UWS)

amother

Coral

Thu, May 02 2024, 9:16 am

I think Crown Heights can be a good fit. I have male relatives (not from a Chabad background) who sound similar and live in Crown Heights/ East Flatbush and are happy.

amother

Lemon

Thu, May 02 2024, 9:17 am

Charnie123 wrote:

Great list!
Jackson and Pomona are amazing didn’t think there were singles there too

amother

Sage

Thu, May 02 2024, 9:25 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Yes, im aware what traditional is, my husband grew up in south africa.
I was explaining how her brother is NOT modern orthodox.

I am agreeing with you Smile