Why does shabbat food have to be traditional ashkenazi food?

zaq

Thu, May 09 2024, 9:37 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

I was explaining why these foods have tradition and meaning to the many people who eat them, so she should be respectful. They don't have to be significant to everyone to be significant to many people.

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I am not a fan of making a religion out of wordplay.

amother

Pearl

Thu, May 09 2024, 9:42 pm

zaq wrote:

I am not a fan of making a religion out of wordplay.

You don't have to be a fan. But to be clear, nobody is making a religion out of wordplay. Tzaddikim have long used gematrias and hidden meanings. For example, you don't have to be a fan of the wordplay in the simanim of Rosh Hashana, but hopefully you respect those of us who do.

amother

Yolk

Thu, May 09 2024, 9:54 pm

No one eats gefilte fish cuz it’s tradition. It’s because they like it as it’s what they are accustomed to. I find it to be unhealthy so I don’t eat it. There is a minhag however, to have fish at the meal, so I have salmon instead. Every week a different recipe. If I’m being fancy it’s Moroccan style (I’m not sfardi btw, just plain Lakewood yeshivish). If not much time I’ll just spice it. Always make sure to get the freshest fish though lkavod Shabbos!
My soup also varies depending how much time I have and what I’m in the mood of. I make chicken soup often, but sometimes I get bored of it so I make other random soups.
Eat whatever kind of fish and meat that makes you happy.

amother

Bluebonnet

Thu, May 09 2024, 10:33 pm

Many of the foods mentioned here are very community dependent.

I had never heard of cholopshes or kreplach until I got married.

I think these foods are more common among chassidim/ those with Hungarian roots.

amother

Thu, May 09 2024, 11:05 pm

Very interesting thread and thanks for the many great responses...

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

This sounds like a cute idea, not a custom.

I do find it hard to attach too much spiritual meaning to some of the symbolic foods (whether wordplay or visual play). For example, the whole "rainbow shabbat" for Parshas Noah is trendy and popular now. It's probably social media and Instagram that is driving this. Maybe this is a fad, or maybe it sticks -- and maybe our great grandkids will be having rainbow challahs and rainbow salads at their shabbat tables for parahas noah. Does that mean that a rainbow challah represents something particularly spiritual? To me, no. And neither do blintzes on shavuot or stuffed cabbage on simchat torah. They're nice traditions that are good to have, but I don't think they're essential to the meaning of Judaism. If these food traditions are lost in a few generations in favor of some other cute way to serve good food on the holiday -- and our descendants still have a strong connection to yiddishkeit in their own way, I don't think it's the end of the world.

justforfun87

Thu, May 09 2024, 11:19 pm

amother OP wrote:

I like to do a shabbat menu of one cuisine or style, like japanese food or persian food or cuban food or whatever. With guests we'll keep it more traditional -- things everyone likes, like Italian or more simile Asian food that people are more familiar with (sushi, edamame, teriyaki chicken) or crowd-pleasing latin food (forms of chicken and rice are always popular).

Yum. Can I be your guests? I'll give up heimishe kugel!

44now

Thu, May 09 2024, 11:23 pm

amother OP wrote:

Very interesting thread and thanks for the many great responses...

I do find it hard to attach too much spiritual meaning to some of the symbolic foods (whether wordplay or visual play). For example, the whole "rainbow shabbat" for Parshas Noah is trendy and popular now. It's probably social media and Instagram that is driving this. Maybe this is a fad, or maybe it sticks -- and maybe our great grandkids will be having rainbow challahs and rainbow salads at their shabbat tables for parahas noah. Does that mean that a rainbow challah represents something particularly spiritual? To me, no. And neither do blintzes on shavuot or stuffed cabbage on simchat torah. They're nice traditions that are good to have, but I don't think they're essential to the meaning of Judaism. If these food traditions are lost in a few generations in favor of some other cute way to serve good food on the holiday -- and our descendants still have a strong connection to yiddishkeit in their own way, I don't think it's the end of the world.

I don't think we can compare the rainbow shabbat, which a cool mom decided is a good way to bring the parshah alive, to the symbolic food that our earlier tzaddikim already ate. I think it's important to be able to differentiate between the two.

amother

Red

Thu, May 09 2024, 11:52 pm

amother Yolk wrote:

Why do you think gefilte fish is unhealthy?

essie14

Fri, May 10 2024, 12:31 am

We are as ashkenazi as they come and my kids like the spiciest food possible.
I don't make kugels or gefilte fish or cholent.
No one here enjoys that.
We also like something different every week so I rotate my menus all the time.

I like to go to the farmers market and base the meals off of seasonal vegetables.

I cook and serve what my family likes to eat.
Never had complaints from guests.

imaima

Fri, May 10 2024, 12:38 am

amother OP wrote:

I'm a BT who grew up very OOT and didn't grow up with any connection to the traditional ashkenazi food that most of you probably know very well. I knew matzah ball soup and pastrami & rye from a treyf "kosher deli" but had no clue what's a kichel or a kugel or the difference between them.

I find the traditional ashkenazi shabbat food to be bland and boring, and I'd never go out of my way to cook it. I make whatever I want for shabbat and when we have guests, I make whatever I think is popular and that I think will have mass appeal. but you'll never find a kugel or gefilte fish on my table.

I've had discussions with others about this and they think it's important for shabbat food to have traditional ashkenazi food to maintain a link to our heritage. I don't see it that way. I see it that we were stuck in europe as very poor people with limited access to spices and good ingredients and developed a cuisine of mediocre peasant food, and I can embrace my judaism and pass it on to our kids without having to cook and serve that food. what do you think?

I agree with you.

imaima

Fri, May 10 2024, 12:43 am

amother Lightcoral wrote:

Why do you see triggered wherever you go? Who said I’m triggered. I thought the comment about a specific person was very rude and judgemental. I’m personally not a fan of posts that put people down. Why can’t she ask more of a do I have to stick to traditional food is there a real merit to it, without putting others down?

You are putting OP down though so there is a contradiction herr.
She wrote that the man had gefilte even though he didn’t even like it.

Iymnok

Fri, May 10 2024, 12:48 am

On Shabbos you should have fish and meat.
On Yom tov, add wine.
There is a minhag to have stuffed/covered food on the days we klap, erev Yom kippur, hoshana rabba and Purim.
The Shabbos seuda needs to start with kiddush then have hamotzi on two complete loaves.

Any fish, any meat, any bread is fine.

Some people are really into their family or community traditions and even add other cute reasoning. But what you do is perfectly acceptable and definitely kavod Shabbos.

DrMom

Fri, May 10 2024, 12:55 am

essie14 wrote:

Yes, we like food that is varied and uses lots of vegetables.

We go to the shuk (outdoor market), see what is in season and looks good, and then look up recipes based on that.

We love to try new things and we like to sample food from different cuisines. Because we like lighter fare with lots of fresh vegetables and/or more piquant seasonings, traditional Ashkenazi food doesn't usually make the cut. Sometimes we'll have gefilte fish or chicken soup as part of a meal though.

Also, most of us don't enjoy eating meat very often, so we'll often have a dairy meal, esp during the hot summer months.

DrMom

Fri, May 10 2024, 12:59 am

b.chadash wrote:

Many people have already mentioned some.
To add, the dairy on shavuos is even more specific.
Blintzes resemble a sefer Torah.

Oh, you've given me an idea: I think I'll make cheese and bean tacos next Shavuot Thumbs Up

amother

Khaki

Fri, May 10 2024, 1:11 am

amother Daffodil wrote:

This statement is untrue.

I didn’t grow up eating Gefelte fish, and now it’s a special treat I look forward to!!

I highly recommend baking the frozen loaves instead of boiling, the texture is way better and it tastes much less “fishy”!

Reality

Fri, May 10 2024, 1:11 am

So much of what people today think of Ashkenazi food is actually Hungarian style Ashkenazi food. Because so many more jews survived WW2 from Hungary.

My family is litvish. Our food traditions may not be spicy but they are peppery! We never used sugar as a condiment. Sugar was in dessert only. Only salt and pepper fish, lukshen kugel etc.

In fact, I remember how in the book, They Called Me Frau Anna, she almost blew her cover when she made a peppery fish for her nazi employer's guests. One came over to her, demanding to know how she learned to cook Jewish-style fish. He remembered eating it pre-war.

Anyway, everyone should cook what makes them happy. I love spicy food but can't stand Asian food. Too much soy sauce and too much sugar. To each their own!

amother

Sand

Fri, May 10 2024, 1:49 am

amother Yolk wrote:
No one eats gefilte fish cuz it’s tradition. It’s because they like it as it’s what they are accustomed to.

amother Daffodil wrote:

This statement is untrue.

We don’t eat gefilta fish because we dislike it, despite it being our “tradition”. Most people that eat gefilta fish like it, but I’ve met many like me.