Eating at a chain that serves trief

amother

DarkGreen

Mon, May 20 2024, 2:50 pm

Little known (and generally useless) fact about such chains. There is a law that if a restaurant has both kosher and nonkosher branches in the same city, they must have a noticeable difference in the name of the two branches. This is why you'll see a sign that says ארומה הכשר on some kosher Aroma branches. I don't think they put that הכשר in the name, if there's not a nonkosher branch in the same city, though, so it's a pretty useless law.

amother

Magnolia

Mon, May 20 2024, 3:39 pm

amother OP wrote:

I assume that's why they don't have a "higher" mehadrin hescher.

I mean I know there's golda branches that don't have a teudah, but I assume they aren't putting meat on top of the ice cream. Serving and selling milk and meat together is a much bigger issue than something without a teudah.

I would assume it's problematic because you are supporting a chain that has no issue publicly breaking halacha and serving it to others and announcing it does so.

Its different than a company working on shabbos, they are helping and serving other people treif, akin to a company that provides services on shabbos.

Dh just said it was problematic halachically and we should probably ask a rav but I'm just really disappointed.

I’m not in Israel but as a general rule people differentiate between franchises and chains with one overall owner. I don’t know how this particular restaurant works

Ridethewaves

Mon, May 20 2024, 3:53 pm

Hi Op, I found out years ago and I remember being upset. The fact the chain was started in yerushalayim and sells treif to other yidden made me not want to support it. It feels different than Pizza Hut that has chains all over and isn't run by Jews. The halachic issues should be discussed with your own rav obviously - just like some won't use electricity on shabbos and opt for a generator and other things. We don't go with that halachic opinion but I still won' buy something in aroma because of the chillul Hashem they are operating.

Comptroller

Tue, May 21 2024, 3:29 am

If you could not eat at a restaurant chain that also has non-kosher restaurants, what point would there be in having a kosher Mc Donalds?

essie14

Tue, May 21 2024, 4:04 am

Comptroller wrote:

If you could not eat at a restaurant chain that also has non-kosher restaurants, what point would there be in having a kosher Mc Donalds?

And pizza hut and domino's and Dunkin donuts and Subway....

amother

Slateblue

Tue, May 21 2024, 5:28 am

essie14 wrote:

And pizza hut and domino's and Dunkin donuts and Subway....

Because the company is run by a [gentile].

You aren't supporting a yid doing business on Shabbos.

In Chul noone uses a generator to avoid using electricity on shabbos, because we really aren't concerned with the actions of a [gentile] that are permissible to him.

I do generally use Aroma, and don't use a generator, just pointing out the difference.

amother

Narcissus

Tue, May 21 2024, 5:35 am

amother Navyblue wrote:

I think there is a concept of Hashkafah when it comes to hechsherim. e.g. Badatz won't give a hechsher due to Zionistic leanings of the retailer. I think they've stopped all that and now certify if the food passess their standards.

So there might be an hashkafic reason why not to eat in a non kosher franchise. But I think most people only need the actual food to be kosher.

I still wouldn't eat there for halacha reasons-
Are you 100% sure there is adequate supervision to ensure that no one (new worker, chiloni that doesn't care is going to mix up any kosher and non kosher utensils/food etc...)

amother

Cerulean

Tue, May 21 2024, 5:47 am

amother Slateblue wrote:

FYI, at least two of those examples seem to have Jewish CEOs.

essie14

Tue, May 21 2024, 5:58 am

amother Narcissus wrote:

What halacha do you think you are violating?

There's no mixing of non kosher food or utensils in a kosher branch of Aroma.
The branch has a mashgiach.
Most kosher restaurants in Israel have chiloni staff. How is this any different than any other random cafe that has chiloni staff and a mashgiach?
If you trust the hashgacha and your corner pizza shop, then why wouldn't you trust the same hashgacha at your corner Aroma branch?

essie14

Tue, May 21 2024, 6:01 am

amother Slateblue wrote:

Pizza Hut Israel CEO is a Jew
Domino's Israel CEO is a Jew
Dunkin Donuts USA CEO is David Hoffman - likely he is Jewish.

Comptroller

Tue, May 21 2024, 6:08 am

amother Slateblue wrote:

Because the company is run by a [gentile].

You aren't supporting a yid doing business on Shabbos. (...)

Isn't Mc Donalds a stock corporation? How do you know that no yiden hold Mc Donalds stock?

Same goes for Dunkin Donut, Pizza Hut, etc.

zaq

Tue, May 21 2024, 8:36 pm

Comptroller wrote:

If you could not eat at a restaurant chain that also has non-kosher restaurants, what point would there be in having a kosher Mc Donalds?

McDonald's is a franchise, not a chain. That means that each one is independently owned and operated, but the owner has to use the corporation's supplies and follow the corporation's procedures. IDK what special negotiations are made to enable one to operate a kosher franchise when the corporation itself is tref, but obviously it can be done if the corporation is willing to cooperate.

In a chain, all the branches are under the same ownership, whether it's an individual or a corporation. It's a different scenario entirely.