Is everyone else also just winging it?

kalsee

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:41 pm

OP, for me it wouldn't be about the money but about the hanging around. I would absolutely not let at this age to go "hang around the mall and" and just wander around.
They can go with friends for a specific purpose - they can buy lunch, buy something specific they need (or want) , maybe check out the new season stuff in a specific store. But no wandering around with no purpose at this age.

For hanging around they can go to someone's house

imaima

Tue, May 21 2024, 10:50 pm

amother OP wrote:

My oldest, a girl, recently turned 12 and boy have I been blindsided by the onset of teenage hood! She wasn't an easy child by any means but I thought I had it somewhat figured out. Now I feel like I have no clue what I'm doing! It doesn't help that I have no one to bounce things off of. How does everyone else know what to do? Like what's accepted, what are reasonable boundaries, what's reasonable of a kid to ask, when to say yes, when to say no... I'm so lost.

Imamother

amother

Wed, May 22 2024, 1:43 am

kalsee wrote:

I agree and this was my reaction too, but like I said, I have no idea what's considered normal out there and dd claims kids her age already to to malls themselves and hang out, and compared to that this seems tame it's just a strip of stores in a completely frum area. And it seems the other mothers have no issue with it. I can't be completely unreasonable and the only fogey / helicopter mom, can I?
But I'm glad you said this and will definitely feel more confident putting my foot down in the morning saying I need to know in advance which stores she's going to and how she plans to spend the money. Is this reasonable ?

amother

Wed, May 22 2024, 1:59 am

amother Brunette wrote:

You are right. What I do is plan with her what she'll buy and calculate how much she'll need. It's not a good idea to carry extra money around anyway.
If she thinks they'll go for ice cream after pizza, I would add another $7-$10.
Money is a really tricky thing. My goal has been that my kids should feel they have money when they need it with a bit extra to learn generosity, but to be smart and responsible about it too.

This way it doesn't really matter what the other girls are bringing because she has the amount she needs, while learning not to bring too much which could get spent irresponsibly or lost by mistake.

This is what I tried to do but if they don't know exactly where they're going and how they'll spend it it's hard to calculate. Maybe pizza, maybe pizza and ice cream, maybe pizza, ice cream and dollar tree, and maybe also gourmet glatt. And if she uses up her money in the first 4 places and then her friends go to gourmet glatt and choose matching snacks to bring to school the next day and her money's gone, is that fair to her?
Also, even if let's say they decide to just do pizza, ice cream and dollar tree, do I have to agree to that? Honestly I think 2 food stores is excessive, if it were up to me I'd say either pizza OR ice cream. I understand that I can set a money budget and let her decide, but again, if the others have money for both and more I can't really play it that way can I?

That's why I asked what they're brining, because I don't want her to feel tight relative to them, but what they're brining seems like a lot for 12 year olds and I'm not happy having to give her that much just so she could fit it.

amother

Cognac

Wed, May 22 2024, 2:40 am

I grew up in a family that could afford to give me spending money, but my parents did not believe in letting kids waste money. I do remember being given money for pizza and a drink fairly regularly. (The act of being responsible for the money is a good learning experience and also teaches your dd skills of how to order in a restaurant, how to count change, and how to be in charge of her own food.) However, by 8th grade and then throughout high school, I babysat 2-3x per week and made my own spending money and began to understand the value and power of money. Going to the mall was definitely entertainment, but I had to review what I was going to spend with my mother before I bought anything beyond a few dollars. The reality is that everyone is winging parenting, particularly with teens. On the other hand, you don't have to be afraid to parent or to make decisions for your child that do not follow what everyone else is doing. $50 sounds a high for an afternoon with friends at age 12.

kalsee

Wed, May 22 2024, 2:41 am

amother OP wrote:

Can you talk to someone you trust (sibling/neighbor) who has older kids and can tell you if it considered normal?

amother

Mimosa

Wed, May 22 2024, 3:55 am

I remember when dd was that age and started going out with friends for lunch and a store . It was not so often. I would probably give her a 20 for the plaza you are describing and it’s fine if other girls bring more. She has to learn that concept. I always give my kids cash for these kinds of things. Dds friend always brought a credit card. I feel they never learn anything about spending if always swiping moms cc. Pizza ice cream dollar tree and school snack at gg seems age appropriate, at that age I would not allow more than once a month. By high school I gave dd monthly allowance and she had to budget it herself

amother

Babyblue

Wed, May 22 2024, 4:29 am

My (kind of poor) parents would actually send me with a credit card but with an approximate number of how much I could spend. I also knew that if I felt like I "needed" to spend more I could. I think it was good for me. I learned self control, not swiping just because I felt like it, and it wasn't embarrassing to spend less if I had a credit card vs if I had $8 in cash and everyone else had $50.

I was a super responsible oldest girl who probably knew too much about my parents finances though! (Don't worry about me - I didn't have any insecurities about it, my father was a Rebbi and I was proud).

Could be if the peer pressure is too strong or she won't have self control this plan would backfire.

sushilover

Wed, May 22 2024, 4:50 am

I would call the parents and not worry about the embarrassment of being the clueless socially off mother.

What's the worst that can happen if you call?
The mothers will tell their daughters not to be friends with your daughter? That sounds toxic and not the kind of friends anyone needs.
The friends will somehow find out and exclude your daughter? Maybe ask the mothers in a light hearted way not to mention that you called.

What's the worst that can happen if you don't call?
The friends might be taking advantage of your daughter and even forcing her to pay for their food.
They might be going to unsafe places with not enough supervision.

It's really not a socially off conversation. "Hi! It's so good to touch base. My daughter has been talking about your daughter for the past few months, she has such nice things to say about her. Isn't it cute how they are getting together on Sunday? I can't believe how grown up they sound! Do you know what their plans are?.... oh wow interesting. Are you dropping them off and leaving? How much do you think each girl will be spending?"

amother

Brunette

Wed, May 22 2024, 5:10 am

amother OP wrote:

She's 12. Either she is mature enough to visit a bunch of stores and spend $15 at only some of them. Or she needs more guidance and should be told which stores to go to.

amother

Heather

Wed, May 22 2024, 5:15 am

Nowhere near raising teens myself but I think you can be confident in the amount you have on mind ie 20 dollars.

Also, your daughter is missing some information- the other girls may be bringing 50 dollars, but is any of that coming from their own pocket?

I think its a great idea to make contact with one of the other mothers like the poster above mentioned. Also, keep in mind, if the other girls are one of the youngest in the family and not the first teen for their parents to deal with, it's different. A lot of parents have different priorities at that stage or have seen how their older kids have turned out and are more relaxed. I was a teen from an older family and had a lot lot less rules then my friends... the differences lasted practically till we got married (think going away with other working girl friends).

Good luck

amother

Wed, May 22 2024, 5:58 am

amother Heather wrote:

She asked them and they said not their own money.

One kid is the oldest like dd but her mother has single sisters still, and the other has 1 sister 2 years above her and she's definitely the one with the hasagos Wink

and it seems also the more relaxed parents? She keeps telling dd that dd's mother must not be in the know because dd is the oldest. She's also the one who said she's bringing 50 dollars or maybe a credit card because maybe she'll buy herself shoes she doesn't know and probably her mother will just say how much do you need and give her whatever amount she thinks she needs. Is this friend stringing dd along? No, not a wealthy family at all to the best of my knowledge.

So here's another question: if veteran parents tend to get more relaxed as time goes on, is there any purpose in being more strict to begin with? Will I look back in 5 years and think what a waste of energy to argue over 5 or 10 [extra] dollars, it's a blip in the grand scheme of things?

amother

Wed, May 22 2024, 6:00 am

amother Mimosa wrote:

This sounds very reasonable, thank you!

amother

Pink

Wed, May 22 2024, 6:27 am

amother OP wrote:

So is it normal for 12 year olds these days to go out to eat and shop with friends on a random off day to the tune of 30-50 dollars? I thought I had until high school for them to want these things. And that amount seems really high to me for this age and stage and for what they're doing, yet she claims the 2 friends she's going with are bringing that amount. And no it's not their own money their parents are just handing it to them. This is tonight's crisis Help

Per my 15 year old, these kids are like burgeoning Sephora girls and they blow 30-50 on things like body mist. They're the exception, not the norm. I wouldn't give in to this practice or it's bound to get worse as they get older.

Chayalle

Wed, May 22 2024, 6:34 am

amother OP wrote:

I could be called a veteran parent, and I'm more relaxed in some things and not in others. I wouldn't send my teen with $50 to blow at Gourmet Glatt plaza or similar. It's not Chinuch.

amother

Alyssum

Wed, May 22 2024, 6:43 am

I do think your insecurities are getting in the way of confident parenting. Confident doesn't have to be strict and rigid, but you have to stop listening to what "everyone's doing" and tune in to yourself. You have the answers inside of you. What are you comfortable with from a safety point of view? What do you think about the financial aspect? What about from a chinuch point of view? Listen to what your gut tells you and let that inform your decisions.

You are very worried about her social and emotional health to the possible detriment of other factors. Because you didn't have these issues as a teen, you are stuck on getting it right and therefore placing undue emphasis on what her friend's are doing. (I'll add that your DD seems to have picked up on your vulnerabilities by mentioning what everyone does and what this friend or that friend does to validate her position.)

I'm not saying not to listen to what your DD is saying about what's normal and what's socially off and what her friends are doing, but you need to strengthen yourself and be the parent she can rely on. It's also ok to say I'm not really ok with this, but I will let you do this now one time and see how it goes. Or you are ok with it but then it turns out differently and so you change your mind. You don't have to worry about setting a precedent that you give x amount of money and only allow y amount of stores. Tell her this first time is an experiment for you to see how much you can trust her and her friends and that you reserve the right to do things differently next time.

Also, it's a good time for a discussion that even though you trust her individually, you understand that friends can pressure even a good kid to do/buy/go stuff she normally wouldn't. Like they all get caught up in an idea without stopping to think quietly if this is safe/appropriate, etc. Validate the struggle but at the same time, you as the parent cannot allow it to happen, so you need to put in safeguards. Being open about your concerns in advance, even if you let her go, will help her have that little voice in her head reminding her of her conscience.