Why This Election Matters to Isrealis...

mugsisme

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 1:15 am

chavamom wrote:

Have you looked at anything from the Obama camp to see what they are talking about? Gotten info from any place other than the RNC and Palin who is now claiming Obama wants to rewrite the constitution?

It wasn't RNC and Palin who said it. It was Obama himself in 2001. What in the world will it take for you to see this man for who he is??? Is there anything that he can do wrong? Why does not one thing even give you a second to pause and think?

Imaonwheels

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 1:42 am

Yoo hoo I thought that this thread was about why this elections matter to Israelis?

The American economy is being fought over elsewhere. The Obama people change everything to US economy because that is where most people have little enough knowledge to swayed.

Can anyone voting for Obama answer the Israel related points I posted above? On several forums there is a some rep of the say 20% of frum Jews who are voting for Obama changing every request for real answers on Israel into either a theoretical debate on economic theory or a challenge that I must first "prove" that McCain would be better.

Please Obama folks. Can you just answer the questions?

Last edited by Imaonwheels on Wed, Oct 29 2008, 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total

mugsisme

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 1:51 am

Imaonwheels wrote:

Please Obama folks. Can you just answer the questions?

They won't answer them. No matter who his friends are or what he thinks of Israel they are still going to vote for him.

HindaRochel

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 2:56 am

I think many Obama supporters are taking the position that:

These are elections for the President of the USA and our concern should be about who is the best for the USA and not for Israel.
(I happen to believe that what happens in Israel is between G-d and the Jews, and a president can be outright hostile to Israel, elected on that basis and not have any impact on Israel whatsoever, if Jews, especially in Israel and especially the frum, are acting in accordance with the Torah to the best of their abilities.)

That Obama will be good for Israel because he will improve the economy. (I disagree with them. I think his policies will end up causing more harm than good) Therefore they are quick to cite the economic woes of the country and how Obama is going to fix them.

That Obama will be quicker at ending the war in Iraq and less likely to get the USA into future wars. (I think the war in Iraq is winding down and McCain is better able to end the war in Iraq sensibly. I also think that McCain is less likely to get us into a useless war, but will not be loathe to defend justice and the USA borders.)

Imaonwheels

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 3:06 am

Quote:

I think many Obama supporters are taking the position that:

These are elections for the President of the USA and our concern should be about who is the best for the USA and not for Israel.

I love your kaf zechus.

They started like that at first and then realized how important Israel is to most Jews. I wouldn't care if the US spent its time dealing with its own problems. No US interference would be much better for Israel.

It is important to know that the Israeli left, American liberal Jews and liberal churches have cut a deal. A palestinian state is exchanged for recognition of non Orthodox groups in Israel and a goring of the fundamentalist churches.

HindaRochel

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 3:16 am

Imaonwheels wrote:

Quote:

I think many Obama supporters are taking the position that:

These are elections for the President of the USA and our concern should be about who is the best for the USA and not for Israel.

I agree. I sometimes think the best deal for Israel would be if the USA stopped being our friends. The PEOPLE of the USA are a different story. Many of many faiths (and yes some have an alterior motive, but some are really convinced that "those who bless you will be blessed) are very pro-Israel.

The government of the USA, is for the government of the USA.

Akeres Habayis

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 4:16 am

imaonwheels I dont answer bc I am just plain exhausted of this whole debate.
the elections are next week,what will be, will be.
Also I have no other way to respond w/out coming across as condescending,which I am trying really hard not to do,so its better for me to just shut up(I'm horrified at some of my posts to fellow yidden,so I'm apologizing).

Sometimes we just disagree,that's why in some circles its faux paux to discuss politics,and I can see why.
those that are voting for mccain,NOTHING any obama supporter will say will change their mind,and vis versa.

lets just wait for the elections and we as jews will continue to daven for the welfare of our jews all over the world, that we all continue to work on our achdus,and realize that everything is from and in the hands of Hashem and its for the good....even when Obama wins LOL

HooRYou

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 4:31 am

I keep saying I am relieved to not be voting in the US elections this year since I have doubts about both candidates. I do have this to say about the elections though. First of all we all know all hatzlacha comes from Hashem therefore the winner of the elections is in the end of things min ha shemayim. Also, there are opinions that like Kings leaders of modern nations do not have bechira but are doing the ratzon Hashem. When I look at these ideas I think that we should all continue doing lots of tshuva and continue davening with all ourhearts that things should be good for all of Klal Yisroel and of course here in E"Y. The nations cannot harm us if we are really doing our jobs in this world.

professor

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 4:50 pm

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You got it all wrong Rachel. they could not care less about issues or anything. and they care even less about Israel. THEY WILL VOTE DEMOCRAT BECAUSE ITS TRADITION. dont you get it? thats their minhag. weather communism hurt the jews or not, mommy voted Dem, grandpa voted dem SO THEY WILL VOTE DEM even when doing so will killthem, and it will

HindaRochel

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 4:55 pm

professor wrote:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You got it all wrong Rachel. they could not care less about issues or anything. and they care even less about Israel. They dont care if Israel gets blown up completely (though it wouldnt because the kotel cannot get destroyed) but in these people's mind even if Israel is wiped off the map doesnt matter. THEY WILL VOTE DEMOCRAT BECAUSE ITS TRADITION. dont you get it? thats their minhag. weather communism hurt the jews or not, mommy voted Dem, grandpa voted dem SO THEY WILL VOTE DEM even when doing so will killthem, and it will

Since I personally know some of the people who are voting for Obama, I do not think you are right. I strongly feel that a vote for Obama is a vote against freedom and Jews, but they disagree (strongly) with me. I do think Israel matters to them as several live here in Israel. I do think they care about Jews. My strong perception is that they are wrong and will come to rue their vote, but that doesn't mean their intent is wrong.

Clarissa

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 4:58 pm

Every American Israeli I know is voting for Obama. Maybe not everybody, but the ones who've told me how they're voting. Also, I know die-hard Republicans who are voting for Obama -- one I mentioned in my thread about what I called the Sarah Palin effect. He's a lifelong Republican, a rabbi, and is voting for the Democratic candidate for the first time in his life.

Whether or not you feel they're right or wrong, don't make assumptions.

avigailmiriam

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 5:14 pm

professor wrote:

So then, people who vote Republican all do so because they have carefully considered opinions? I know lots of generational Republican voters. I know lots of generational Democratic voters. Are both voting that way because it is TRADITION?

I respect those who vote Republican enough to dan l'kaf zechus and assume they have intelligent reasons for doing so and have thought about the potential implications of their actions. I hope you will respect me enough to do the same.

professor

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 5:36 pm

HELP!!!
I cant open a new topic
can someone post a new topic called "Why the Loyalty to Democrats?"
and write:
""I am a Republican from a republican family (we are frum) so I don't understand the crazy loyalty democrats have to their party. I have voted democrat every once in a while if it was better for the jews. why arent the democrat jews, as liberal and as chiloni as they are, why when Israel's saftey is at stake why can they not move away from democrats??????""

professor

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 5:39 pm

Oh wait, in th enew topic can whoever writes it add, that please provide a link or explain why if you will vote for Obama, why are you doing so? do you really believe he is good for the yiden?

HindaRochel

Wed, Oct 29 2008, 5:40 pm

professor wrote:

Oh wait, in th enew topic can whoever writes it add, that please provide a link or explain why if you will vote for Obama, why are you doing so? do you really believe he is good for the yiden?

Yes. You can open a thread and post in the subject box. You can ask people to provide a link. That doesn't mean people will.