Why This Election Matters to Isrealis...

mugsisme

Sun, Oct 26 2008, 3:16 am

No, what scares me more is the way so many Jewish people are turning a blind eye to all this.

I spoke with 5 or 6 people at shul today. I got these reasons why they are voting for Obama:

Quote:

I like the way he looks. McCain doesn't look so nice. He gives me the willies.

We make more than $250K. It is our social duty to help those less fortunate than us.

I am more concerned about how much Sarah Palin spends on her wardrobe.

His associates do not bother me at all.

No one has proven any of this stuff. Bush is bad and has ruined this country. Don't believe everything you read about Obama.

Republicans lie, Democrats tell the truth.

anyone who still wants to vote for Obama, please look at this link as well:
Facts for Jews 2008

One more thing ... the guy still has not produced a valid birth certificate. And stop posting links to the copy. That is a certificate of a live birth. Can be done any time after the birth. That is not the birth certificate. Phil Berg had his case dismissed today. The judge said he doesn't have the right to bring this charge. What??? When can we find out if this guy is really an American.

Akeres Habayis

Sun, Oct 26 2008, 3:40 am

Quote:

the guy still has not produced a valid birth certificate. And stop posting links to the copy. That is a certificate of a live birth. Can be done any time after the birth. That is not the birth certificate. Phil Berg had his case dismissed today. The judge said he doesn't have the right to bring this charge. What??? When can we find out if this guy is really an American.

u can be a senator,without being a citizen of the United states of America??

thru out history our problem has been depending on non jews to "save us",this is a problem. when will we as Jews realize that it isnt' in the hands of non jews,let alone man,to save us,to help us,it is ONLY thru Hashem.
so mickey mouse could be elected but if Hashem does not feel we have the zchus to have whatever,then its not going to happen.
when we do our part(dictated by Hashem)it wont matter who is elected,Hashem will do His.
I hear a lot of Mccain will help us,the Republicans will help us,Likud will help us,NO,its Hashem.
No [gentile] will help israel,and they dont have israel's best interest at heart NEVER HAD,so why should that be the deciding factor on who to vote for.I put my trust in Hashem ONLY about my wellbeing not in a [gentile].

mugsisme

Sun, Oct 26 2008, 3:53 am

site explaining the ruling
This guy, Phil Berg, a democrat from Philly was suing Obama. He lost yesterday, but basically because the judge feels that we, as voters, do not have a right to demand that someone is an American citizen to run for President.

And yes, you are right about who we have to turn to. I have been davening so hard for a friend of Israel to get in! Thank you again for reminding us yet again.

I am just so scared with who this guy hangs around with. All his pals are rabid anti-Semites. Well, I should say all. Most?

mimivan

Sun, Oct 26 2008, 3:55 pm

Quote:

I put my trust in Hashem ONLY about my wellbeing not in a [gentile]

akeres, Then why are you pushing so hard for one candidate over the other? With this attitude, you might not care about the elections.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe did seem to think it mattered who was in power, because he stressed shleimus haaretz and not giving up land. If we do our part, Hashem will do his..

Clarissa

Sun, Oct 26 2008, 5:41 pm

mugsisme wrote:

Or it could be that the judge recognized that Phil Berg is a crackpot. He tried to have the Supreme Court justices disbarred. I think he walks around with one of those foil hats to he can communicate with aliens.

Akeres Habayis

Mon, Oct 27 2008, 4:19 am

[quote="mimivan"]

Quote:

I put my trust in Hashem ONLY about my wellbeing not in a [gentile]

Quote:

akeres, Then why are you pushing so hard for one candidate over the other? With this attitude, you might not care about the elections.

as a jew,we are obligated to follow thelaws of the land we live in,one of those is to vote.when I push for Obama,I push for him,for America,it has nothing to do w/israel. IF he does something amazing for Israel BH,BUT I know it isn't him at all!Its bc Hashem allowed it as( He does everything),and I know its bc WE as jews are doing our part,according to Torah.

All of my family have been hit really hard by the economy,and I can't listen to another moment about it.I'm happy that I live here,and sometimes,I forget about my family who lives in america,bc I'm so happy here.But as long as I have family and friends that live in AMERICA,I care about what happens to them,and voting, I believe, is helping them.

Quote:

The Lubavitcher Rebbe did seem to think it mattered who was in power, because he stressed shleimus haaretz and not giving up land. If we do our part, Hashem will do his.

.
Yes,I do believe the Rebbe was speaking mostly to the PM of israel,who are jewish.The Rebbe(I think)speaks to them w/ Torah(trying to reach the pitele yid) about our G-d given right to live here.
America can say to Israel,"lets divide the land for peace(two state),the capital should contain pa's and israeli's"it is up to the JEW(PM of Israel) to say ABSOLUTELY NOT!

I EXPECT a jew to do what he is suppose to do for Israel,but I dont EXPECT a [gentile] to do it.
Its nice if he does and its MaMosh a Nes,bc a [gentile] is doing something that is against his nature.when we say"I'm afraid,what Obama will do,I'm afraid what Mccain will do".the only thing we should be afraid of,is Hashem.
Hashem is all powerful, all knowing,I think we tend to forget that.

so let me say again,I vote for Obama,bc he is good for America,he is good for the economy,education,and health care.IMHO

StrongIma

Mon, Oct 27 2008, 4:49 am

1 - Obama looks good - that's his strongest point. But as far as I know he has little on record to prove it. He's quite inexperienced and I'm afraid for the US, not only for the Jews, if he's ch'v in the Oval Office.

2 - to be a senator, one must of course be a citizen, but not born actually in the US. An immigrant can serve in office. But the pres. must be a natural-born citizen.
and we're not even sure about this guys credentials?!

(What's the matter with you people? don't they teach you anything in school nowadays?)

I think I read in Reader's Digest - a sign of how nuts the world has gotten -
Miss America is chosen on the basis of her world views and values and the pres. is chosen on the basis of how good he looks!

Imaonwheels

Mon, Oct 27 2008, 6:28 am

These are the ONLY reasons why Israelis should not vote for Obama/Biden:

1. He doesn't do lip sevice to the 2 state solution - he believes in it.
2. Joe Biden said that he wants to see UN troops here during the VP debate.
3. Obama has proven with his words that he has no problem saying one thing for mass media and saying the opposite in small liberal forums (Remember guns and religion is for us frustrated people).
4. The Chicago/ Univ of Chicago/black activist chevra is lockstep in extreme liberal causes including the belief that someone is persecuting the poor "Pallestinians".
5. In his Atlantic Monthly article he said that he believes that settlements are an obstacle.
6. He believes America should continue actively pressuring parties in our dispute. I prefer the president that is likely to do as little as possible concerning us and deal with American problems.
7. Support for Israel that is not based on emuna always dissipates when the going gets tough. The same thing happened with secular zionism and a good chunk of religious zionism here.

ora_43

Mon, Oct 27 2008, 7:34 am

How many times do people have to explain that Obama is a natural-born citizen whether or not he was born in the US before everyone gets it? *sigh*...
1. You can be a natural born US citizen, qualified to be president, without being born on American soil if at least one parent is American, as Obama's mother was when he was born.
2. If he wasn't born in the US, do you really think that no media would have picked up on that by now? After months of rumors, do you still think it would be only the bloggers and conspiracy theorists who kept talking about this "issue" if there was anything to it?

I agree with Akeres, we can't trust either of them when it comes to Israel. The "pro-Israel' Bush was in office during the disengagement, the constant rocket attacks on the western Negev, and the current offer to give almost everything to the PA including things that were never offered before like land within the "green line." Bush's senior military officers are the ones training PA police, yes the same "police" who murdered Israelis so many times in the past and who are often affiliated with various terrorist groups (in fact, the PA is openly recruiting members of renegade terrorist groups to join its "security forces," which hasn't stopped Dayton from giving them advanced military training and pushing to have them deployed a short distance from Jewish communities, and hasn't convinced Bush to stop Dayton's insane project).

I hate what Obama says about Israel. But I've also seen that what candidates say about Israel means nothing if they aren't frum Jews. So what concerns me now is what the candidate will do in America. Because ultimately, I think the candidate who's best for the US economy and general middle east stability will be better for Israel, no matter what his official position on Israel-PA peace is.

mugsisme

Mon, Oct 27 2008, 7:08 pm

Miss Missie wrote:

Do you think redistribution of wealth is fair? Will that benefit hardworking Americans? Maybe it will assist the bums that sit on their front steps all day...

You know what I would love to see ... What would happen to the wealth if every single person who makes over $250K quit their jobs???

I am sick and tired of hearing about how the wealthy should give away their money. Biden gives 0.02% of wealth away.

They want to cut spending by 25%. That will force us out of Iran, and force the military to pick and choose what equipment to buy. Gee, why not just send some tickets to terrorists, and show them where they should attack. (Maybe start with the White House?)

Obama does not believe in the constitution. He is tired of being held back by it. Long live King Hussein. Welcome to the new republic of America, where you have to worry about what you say and there is no longer any incentive to work hard. The American Dream will be to grab as much as you can while doing nothing.

I really do not mean this to be rude, but I just don't understand. How come no one seems to care about democracy? The Constitution? Our rights to worship as we chose??? How long until we start to lose our rights?

The only consolation to me is that if C"V Obama wins, the American people will get exactly what they deserve.

Clarissa

Mon, Oct 27 2008, 7:14 pm

mugsisme wrote:

Obama does not believe in the constitution. He is tired of being held back by it. Long live King Hussein. Welcome to the new republic of America, where you have to worry about what you say and there is no longer any incentive to work hard. The American Dream will be to grab as much as you can while doing nothing.

I really do not mean this to be rude, but I just don't understand. How come no one seems to care about democracy? The Constitution? Our rights to worship as we chose??? How long until we start to lose our rights?

The only consolation to me is that if C"V Obama wins, the American people will get exactly what they deserve.

I'm sorry, I understand feeling strongly about an election, but I don't understand this post at all. Even people I know who are loyal Republicans don't say such extreme things about the possibility of Obama winning this election. And the Democrats I know certainly don't say such extreme things about McCain winning.

If anything was going to destroy this country, it was the eight years of W. The damage he's done and the danger he's put is in by stirring up world rage and terrorism may have doomed us. I hope not. I don't know that anybody can fix what's broken, but I think the things you're saying about Obama (talking about King Hussein, saying that the American dream will die because everyone will stop working, etc. -- that one makes no sense, I have extremely wealthy friends and no matter how much they have to pay in taxes, they're certainly going to keep working and getting richer) just sound kind of over-the-top.

mugsisme

Mon, Oct 27 2008, 7:26 pm

Clarissa, tell me. Do you want someone to come and hand you money someone else worked hard to earn? I am not talking tzedakkah. I am saying, someone will come and take Mrs. X's money, and hand it over to you and say, Here you go. Enjoy. Does it seem fair?

I am not the only one who feels that we are truly voting for democracy in this election. Obama has not hidden it at all that he is a socialist. He has said that the Constitution is a living document that needs to be updated with the times. Will YOU feel safe from terrorists knowing our military has been cut by a whooping 25%? How do you feel about the fact that the democrats want to go after the 401K plans, and seize them. They want to put them into a government retirement account. Then, if you are stupid enough to make any more payments for it, they won't be tax deductible. This may cause you to be bumped up a tax bracket, but oh well. More money for them to spend. For goodness sake, how many of you are feeling the crunch, and decide you need to go spend money??? I have been doing retail therapy for the last 7.5 years, but the last few months I have completely stopped. I can't afford to do it anymore. And yet you hear this one or that one screaming we need to spend more. Except when it is the Military. Oh no. Not there. Anyone who makes over $42K a year is going to end up seeing their taxes go up.

but it is OK, because I am just an alarmist.

Clarissa

Mon, Oct 27 2008, 7:30 pm

Honestly, I think you don't understand his plan. But I'm not going to get into it, because others have done it here on Imamother, better than I. Nobody is going to hand me anybody's hard-earned money, and nobody is going to hand my money to anybody else. This economy is a disaster, and I think Obama has the better plan, but I don't think the damage that's been done by this mess can be fixed easily by anyone.

If Obama wins, please tell me about your friends who stop working. Mine sure as heck won't stop working. They like their homes and food and all that.

I pay taxes. I'm okay about paying taxes, as long as my money doesn't go down the toilet, or as it's more commonly called, pay for this disastrous war in Iraq. If it goes to providing health care to those that need it, and for programs to improve the lives of the poor, have at it.

mugsisme

Mon, Oct 27 2008, 7:44 pm

I said, wouldn't it be funny if everyone stopped working. Then where would he get his money from?

I do find it pretty funny that almost every single Obama supporter I have spoken is the same. Not one person will ever answer a question. Just like their wonderful leader. He evades questions too. I think you all are in a rude surprise if chas v'shalom the worst happens.

What ever. It is not in my hands. I know Hashem has a plan, even if I don't understand it from this end.