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SIL inviting herself for shabbos. Mikvah Friday night. WWYD?
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  amother  


 

Post Tue, Dec 30 2014, 8:01 pm
amother wrote:
Quote:
Dh says he thinks she will be disappointed but get over it and happily come a different week when it can work.

I cannot tell you how many times my dh has been wrong about how the women in his family will react to something!

LOL! I think that I'm thinking it's a bigger deal than him just because I feel like I need to make it work for the inlaws. However, thus far have been unable to find her accommodations (only possibility right now is an empty apartment and I think she'd be scared to be alone). My own sister I'd have no problem saying it's not a good week. And in terms of how the women in his family will react...I have to trust him on this because they are VERY different than me. Crying and PMS is an EVERY. SINGLE. DAY occurrence in his parents house which is the exact opposite her (he's never seen me cry and I don't get hormonal/PMS etc). He's great at handling them but I don't get how they tick so I can't argue with him.
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  amother  


 

Post Tue, Dec 30 2014, 8:02 pm
Quote:
but I don't want to do something if its considered that bad

Who cares what other people think. It's about putting yourself in sil's shoes and thinking how SHE would feel. Can't you understand how hurtful it would be told that YOUR BROTHER CAN'T HOST YOU ON THE RARE EXCITING OPPORTUNITY YOU GET TO COME TO HIS TOWN????? AND TO JUST BE TOLD THAT IT'S A "BAD WEEK"? Seriously you don't understand how this girl would feel?
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  amother  


 

Post Tue, Dec 30 2014, 8:07 pm
Quote:
Crying and PMS is an EVERY. SINGLE. DAY occurrence in his parents house which is the exact opposite her (he's never seen me cry and I don't get hormonal/PMS etc).

Because you have a personality that isn't so sensitive and you don't get hurt easily, that's exactly why you need to tread carefully with other people. The majority of women are more sensitive than you, and you need to watch yourself carefully because you can hurt them without realizing you did.
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  amother  


 

Post Tue, Dec 30 2014, 8:10 pm
amother wrote:
Quote:
but I don't want to do something if its considered that bad

Who cares what other people think. It's about putting yourself in sil's shoes and thinking how SHE would feel. Can't you understand how hurtful it would be told that YOUR BROTHER CAN'T HOST YOU ON THE RARE EXCITING OPPORTUNITY YOU GET TO COME TO HIS TOWN????? AND TO JUST BE TOLD THAT IT'S A "BAD WEEK"? Seriously you don't understand how this girl would feel?

SIL is "other people" so that's why I care. Many people clearly feel differently than I do and I did when I was in need of invitations. That's why hearing other peoples opinions helps. Now can you get off your high horse and stop shouting?

Personally I would get over it. I've been told that in the past when I was single and the family was away so I needed to find somewhere to go and I had to find other arrangements. It never occurred to me to be hurt or feel bad and I appreciated the invite on the week that worked. She already has somewhere to be but likes this idea better. I definitely wouldn't leave her if she would be stranded but she wont.
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  amother  


 

Post Tue, Dec 30 2014, 8:10 pm
Quote:
My own sister I'd have no problem saying it's not a good week.

Yes. That's why it's great to have a sister - they're on the same wavelength as you, and you can be direct without offending them. But a sister-in-law is very very very very very very very different. You have to build this relationship and make sure she feels your warmth and your caring.
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  amother  


 

Post Tue, Dec 30 2014, 10:18 pm
Why doesn't dh want her to come? And if she's emotional and crying by nature then isn't it more likely that she will be hurt? Also you said you are not sensitive but said you would be really hurt if your dh wanted her to come.
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  amother  


 

Post Tue, Dec 30 2014, 10:26 pm
amother wrote:
Why doesn't dh want her to come? And if she's emotional and crying by nature then isn't it more likely that she will be hurt? Also you said you are not sensitive but said you would be really hurt if your dh wanted her to come.

He doesn't want her to come because it's mikvah night and he wants to spend it accordingly.

I don't get cryers that much but from my understanding there isn't always a great explanation for the tears and I don't necessarily think that means they are hurt when they cry (they cry from frustration, hormones, etc). I went through the baby blues for about six weeks after my baby was born and was basically crying 24/7 (apparently did a good job hiding it because he didn't notice). All it took was for the sun to rise to set me off. I wasn't feeling happy and I wasn't feeling sad. I was feeling completely neutral and nothing was bothering me (most of the time) but the water works were constantly going off. I'm guessing it's the same when people PMS or generally speaking cry a lot?

And I never said I'm not sensitive. Also, even non sensitive people get hurt sometimes.
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 30 2014, 10:30 pm
You clearly don't want her, have no qualms showing her that, and don't care if you hurt her. You are obviously not interested in making this work - you have turned down every single suggestion anyone has given you. I feel bad for your sister in law, but maybe she's better off without you.
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  amother  


 

Post Tue, Dec 30 2014, 10:43 pm
What seems pretty clear here is :

OP clearly dislikes her DHs family and looks down on them for their more emotional ways because she is not like that and can't relate to people like them .

She does not really want to host this girl and that choice WILL for sure not endear herself to the family (difficult MIL milk that for drama and be insulted) .

She is not willing to even try to cook in advance or do anything remotely gracious to make this girl not feel like a pest Crying I would even buy a inflatable mattress and host my young SIL in my living room if needed , Ze-x can wait a day ,you are not a newly wed kallah anymore .

OP you are allowed to be like that (and have poor hospitality skills) but realize that you are potentially hurting somebody and making your DH into a lousy brother .

Don't complain when SIL or the family gives up on you and your kids become "second class" you will reap what you sow with this attitude. I sadly see the title of "hated DIL,SIL" in your future if you do not learn to accommodate FAMILY.

I personally gave up on my practically never available relative after it became very clear there was always something in the way of a visit and hosting was always such hardship Rolling Eyes Some forget what is like to be single and how it hurts when you feel a sib pushes you away to accommodate a needy spouse .

Once I got married and became more financially secure said relative was offended I spent more $$ on my other relatives kid because their mum was always so nice to me , I just felt it was greedy since I was never good enough to host as a broke college student but now she was making demands and basically giving me a shopping list Exploding anger
(Anon because she might be here and I have no interest in her now)
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  amother  


 

Post Tue, Dec 30 2014, 11:17 pm
amother wrote:
What seems pretty clear here is :

OP clearly dislikes her DHs family and looks down on them for their more emotional ways because she is not like that and can't relate to people like them .

She does not really want to host this girl and that choice WILL for sure not endear herself to the family (difficult MIL milk that for drama and be insulted) .

She is not willing to even try to cook in advance or do anything remotely gracious to make this girl not feel like a pest Crying I would even buy a inflatable mattress and host my young SIL in my living room if needed , Ze-x can wait a day ,you are not a newly wed kallah anymore .

OP you are allowed to be like that (and have poor hospitality skills) but realize that you are potentially hurting somebody and making your DH into a lousy brother .

Don't complain when SIL or the family gives up on you and your kids become "second class" you will reap what you sow with this attitude. I sadly see the title of "hated DIL,SIL" in your future if you do not learn to accommodate FAMILY.

I personally gave up on my practically never available relative after it became very clear there was always something in the way of a visit and hosting was always such hardship Rolling Eyes Some forget what is like to be single and how it hurts when you feel a sib pushes you away to accommodate a needy spouse .

Once I got married and became more financially secure said relative was offended I spent more $$ on my other relatives kid because their mum was always so nice to me , I just felt it was greedy since I was never good enough to host as a broke college student but now she was making demands and basically giving me a shopping list Exploding anger
(Anon because she might be here and I have no interest in her now)

Not sure why I'm even bothering to respond to this post but here goes.

I do not dislike Dhs family. I have many issues with his mother. I'm cool with the rest of the family and like this sister a lot. She is more emotional than me and I don't get it but I don't judge her. I don't judge emotional people in general. I know most girls are more emotional than me.

You are right. I really do not want to host her mikvah night. If it works out she will have no idea that she is unwanted.

Where did you get the idea I wouldn't try to cook in advance? I am working till midnight most days next week but would get take out if necessary. It's an added stress but that's not insurmountable. It's also not about the s ex it's about having him in general and it's hard enough for me to make it till the finish line I don't want to add any time on to it. I'm fairly newliwed and what with working till midnight all the time shabbos is really our only quality time together. I'm sorry that you'd find it so easy to give up half of your monthly time with dh to accommodate a guest who it's convenient for.

I don't have poor hospitality skills. Once she is here she will have a wonderful time. I think everyones issue with my issue here is that I don't want to practice said skills on mikvah night. I'm also not making him into a lousy brother. I told him it's his family and it's his call. For my part I put out feelers to see if any of my neighbors can put her up. Ultimately it's up to him and it wont be my decision to make.

I'm really looking forward to becoming "second class citizens" or whatever you want to call it when we become less exciting as more kids get married and have more grandkids. I don't need their presents. I'm ready to do away with the added stresses and expectations that come along with the firsts. I accommodate them with practically everything but nothing is remembered the next time (or even in middle of said accommodation if one tiny thing doesn't go their way).

I'm not never available. I know what it's like to be single because I was single way too long. She's 17 and not exactly suffering the effects of being an older single and is NOT in a situation where she is in need of accommodations she just wants to come then. And needy or not, one should be tending to their spouses needs before their siblings. May suck for the sibling but such is life.

And I'm sorry that you feel that way about your siblings. I'm bh financially secure and help out family. I don't build relationships based on who will give back more in the long run.
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  amother  


 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 12:24 am
amother wrote:
He doesn't want her to come because it's mikvah night and he wants to spend it accordingly.

I don't get cryers that much but from my understanding there isn't always a great explanation for the tears and I don't necessarily think that means they are hurt when they cry (they cry from frustration, hormones, etc). I went through the baby blues for about six weeks after my baby was born and was basically crying 24/7 (apparently did a good job hiding it because he didn't notice). All it took was for the sun to rise to set me off. I wasn't feeling happy and I wasn't feeling sad. I was feeling completely neutral and nothing was bothering me (most of the time) but the water works were constantly going off. I'm guessing it's the same when people PMS or generally speaking cry a lot?

And I never said I'm not sensitive. Also, even non sensitive people get hurt sometimes.


There is definitely a weird dynamic here. Right so you'll have zex. The sister in not even staying in the house, how does her coming for meals mess up mikvah night? I don't get it.
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  amother  


 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 1:27 am
amother wrote:
I guess I'm most annoyed with the fact that I have to have her because its a good week for her and don't get to take into account that its a very bad week for me. In terms of her coming I'd hate not having dh all Shabbos. [b]We barely see each other during the week and Shabbos is our main quality/cuddle time [/b](yes, I know when baby is older we won't have that but we are enjoying having it now) and having someone all Shabbos is basically giving up half of that for the month.

Btw dh is stalling to give answer because he doesn't want to make it work if I go Friday night. He would want to try if I end up going sat night though which I think is silly because its harder to kick her out early then and I'm sleeping by 10 so I can be functional at my intense job on Sunday. Either way, he's less amenable to it than me but ill totally be the one blamed as being obnoxious if he tells her it's a bad week.


Based on that peculiar post above , I kinda think that OP herself has issues that render her simply incapable of focusing on anyone's feelings beyond her own .

Many newly related women have a hard time getting along . After reading this I will be cutting the "horrible" MILs that imamothers kvetch about some serious slack from now on . Op you should realize that you do not sound very easy going yourself. Sorry, I am just being honest here

OP simply can't share her DH attention or consider the fact that 17 year old girl will be hurt. I guess it is a skill that comes with maturity and experience.

The problem IMO is not the girl showing up this time.The problem is that you and your DH are taking the concept of "quality time" too literally and not making enough real time to bond beyond Shabbos so if anyone gets in the way you feel hostile and deprived , you too busy or overextended and are cramming the "love" and running on an empty emotional tank .

You must re evaluate the lifestyle .Soon more kids will come B'H and you will have to learn to adapt and not see others as interlopers to a part time marriage created by an overextended lifestyle .

recently 2 MD friends of mine divorced Sad Shabbos every few weeks only quality time was not enough .

I would host the girl though ,I feel is not her fault you guys choose to have such a crazy demanding schedule and she just wants to spend time with the baby who is after all her family ,her niece .

Amother because I am not sure if my MD friend is here.
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  amother  


 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 5:15 am
I'm taking the OP's side here- I don't think most of the women posting here have worked jobs that take them away from home all evening the whole week. I had such a job my entire shana rishona (though mine was in a hospital and involved frequent Shabbos shifts too). What little non-niddah time I got with DH was extremely precious, and we didn't visit family much that year.

So niddah's not difficult for you? Great! I'm honestly very happy for you- no sarcasm. But if OP does find it very difficult, being told she should give up a day's worth of hugs and cuddles (when she only has two such days a month) really isn't fair.

SIL sounds very sweet but clueless. Even a single should have been able to implicitly understand that right around OP's due date was not a good time to ask herself over, and that shouldn't count against the OP as a refusal.

So this week doesn't work well- OP, do try to find another week that would work better for you and offer an invitation then. Offer them more than once if when you first offer is a week that doesn't work for her. If you are financially comfortable, it would be nice if you offered to pay her bus fare then.
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  amother  


 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 2:57 pm
Your problem isn't with the mikvah logistics, it's that you're giving up your time with DH. so basically you would only have guests when your a niddah. weird.
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  greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 3:08 pm
amother wrote:
I really do not want to host her mikvah night. If it works out she will have no idea that she is unwanted.


why don't you just do her a favour and tell her she is unwanted - she'll find out sooner or later ... all problems solved !!! Rolling Eyes
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Health is a Virture




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 3:22 pm
your shalom bayis comes first. For all those who said to postpone mikvah, you should NEVER postpone mikvah (unless in real extenuating circumstances!). Your husband comes first and that is that. If you are not comfortable with her there than say it like it is. You had a prior engagement planned and this week is just not a good week, but do invite her back in three weeks or whenever is good for you. This way she won't take it personally. And if you are still uncomfortable with her because it is such a small apt then just say it really isn't comfortable. She won't understand perhaps till she is married, but just let it be. Your shalom bayis comes first!! Unless your husband wants his sister there....
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  amother  


 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 3:26 pm
you need to be straightforward and tell her that this is a bad week. I had a similar situation where my mil invited herself for a Shabbos and I really didn't want them to come because I had to go to the mikvah. my mil didn't take no for an answer and came and me and my dh "took a walk" that night. it was very stressful and also sort of ruined our mikvah night- but not going would have ruined our night as well.
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  Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 3:45 pm
Health is a Virture wrote:
your shalom bayis comes first. For all those who said to postpone mikvah, you should NEVER postpone mikvah (unless in real extenuating circumstances!). Your husband comes first and that is that. If you are not comfortable with her there than say it like it is. You had a prior engagement planned and this week is just not a good week, but do invite her back in three weeks or whenever is good for you. This way she won't take it personally. And if you are still uncomfortable with her because it is such a small apt then just say it really isn't comfortable. She won't understand perhaps till she is married, but just let it be. Your shalom bayis comes first!! Unless your husband wants his sister there....


So let's test this. Its YOUR mother. She doesn't have a car, or doesn't drive. Lives 4 hours away. So getting to your home is a real chore. As a result, she hasn't yet been able to see your first-born daughter, who is about 4 or 5 months old by now. Finally, an opportunity comes. She's going to be nearby. Please, can I spend Shabbat with you?

Now, you can find an empty apartment for her, so she's not sleeping in your apartment. But if she comes, you won't be able to get into bed with your husband, or canoodle on the couch, until 10 pm. And once she comes Shabbat day, you won't be able to canoodle.

Do you say, "Gee, mom, I know you'd like to see the baby, but I'm sure you'll make it here again in a few months. This is just a really bad time for us." Because canoodling comes before mom.

And if your husband suggests that, hey, maybe you should let mom come, do you make it clear that you're quite upset because if he lets anything come between you and mikvah night, he clearly doesn't care enough for you.

Because while OP keeps making excuses as to why she can't go to the mikvah if her SIL is there, they're little more than excuses. It CAN be done. It may not be easy, but it is possible.

Or let's say you live in New York. You're visiting DC for a couple of days, and call a friend. "Let's do lunch." "Oh, sorry, I'm busy. Let's do it next week." Blank stare. Next week? I live in New York, for heaven's sake. If you can't do it, fine. But do you really think I'm coming back that quickly? Its 4 hours away!

In any case, it's 4 or 5 days later by now. I'm pretty sure that SIL will understand exactly what "this isn't a good week" means. And I don't mean that she'll understand that it means that OP is going to the mikvah.
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  amother  


 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 3:50 pm
I hear you, OP, but not sure why this is so complicated and difficult to sort out. IIRC, you've said that you can't have her sleep in your apartment because it's a 1-bedroom and the couch isn't an option because of your baby, right? So she can only come if you find her another place to sleep. If I've followed everything you wrote-- so far, you've only found an empty apt, which you think she may feel uncomfortable with. So tell her that you've tried to find her a place to sleep and all you found was an empty apt, and ask her if she would like to stay there (acknowledge that you realize that may be uncomfortable for her) and eat by you, or if she'd like to try to find herself another place to sleep, or if she'd like to come a different week. Also warn her that you and dh are tired on Shabbos b/c you work so late all week, so you go to sleep early Fri night and nap whenever you can, so it might not be so fun for her to come b/c you'll be too tired to spend all that much time with her. (Just make sure NOT to say this in a way that makes her feel unwanted - rather, tell her that you want to make sure that she has a fun, not boring, Shabbos and don't want her to be disappointed that you're sleepyheads.)

If she chooses not to come, then great, and make sure to try to work out a different week for her to come.
If she chooses to come and stay in the empty apt or by a friend, then tell her that you'll be resting, taking care of the baby, etc after candle lighting, so she should come an hour after candlelighting (she can go to shul, or you can give her a book to read, or something). For after Fri night meal, you already told her that you go to sleep early, so you can say "so sorry to send you back so early but we're sooo tired *yawn*" and send her back to where she's staying, and you have your time with dh. Shabbos day is short, (assuming you live in a country where it's winter now), so not much time to spend with dh anyhow, but if you want, make your lunch be on the short side and ask her if she minds if dh and you take a nap. Offer that she can go back to where she's staying, or take a walk, or even watch your baby or read on your couch -- and meanwhile you and dh can do whatever you want in your bedroom. And this way you have basically all the time with dh that you would have had without her there, except for meals themselves (which I understand is still time, but...)
If she has a friend she can stay by, then that makes things easier -- you don't have to feel bad about sending her away so soon after meals.

FYI, I'm more newlywed than you are, so I get that part. As a newlywed -- I have siblings who are living away from home in the same city as I live (but not walkable, so they can't come for just a meal), and they love to come for Shabbos/Yom Tov quite often. I don't think we've ever refused them, niddah or not. (although if they asked every week, we probably would refuse sometimes.) Siblings are siblings; we do our best to make them feel welcome.
I don't have as crazy a work schedule as you, so I readily admit I'm having a bit more trouble empathizing with that aspect, and maybe I am underestimating how difficult it is for you. Sorry if that's the case.

If dh is really set on not having her, and letting her come will ruin your shalom bayis, then ignore me, and invite her another week soon. But this really sounds like a doable situation to me.
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  amother  


 

Post Wed, Dec 31 2014, 4:04 pm
amother wrote:
I'm taking the OP's side here- I don't think most of the women posting here have worked jobs that take them away from home all evening the whole week. I had such a job my entire shana rishona (though mine was in a hospital and involved frequent Shabbos shifts too). What little non-niddah time I got with DH was extremely precious, and we didn't visit family much that year.

So niddah's not difficult for you? Great! I'm honestly very happy for you- no sarcasm. But if OP does find it very difficult, being told she should give up a day's worth of hugs and cuddles (when she only has two such days a month) really isn't fair.

SIL sounds very sweet but clueless. Even a single should have been able to implicitly understand that right around OP's due date was not a good time to ask herself over, and that shouldn't count against the OP as a refusal.

So this week doesn't work well- OP, do try to find another week that would work better for you and offer an invitation then. Offer them more than once if when you first offer is a week that doesn't work for her. If you are financially comfortable, it would be nice if you offered to pay her bus fare then.


Scratching Head AFAIK normal people don't need to lie in bed all day "cuddling" Rolling Eyes specially if you are not newly weds but people with a baby around who also needs care and attention (bummer) . People can hug here and there at home discretely or act warm and affectionate without it leading to public intercourse.

Is not like the average frum woman gets home post mikvah and expects to have marathon intimate encounters for the whole day or weekend (ouch!) intimacy is not just about touch or intercourse but a solid soul connection that if strong enough eases the pain of niddah times separation . Healthy Intimacy certainly is not some desperate itches that just have to be scratched at all costs including family relationships. IMO Something is off here if the only guest friendly times sound like niddah times .

SIL.... she is only 17 and just wants to hold the cute baby while it still a baby (gosh, at this rate maybe they will meet at the baby's bat mitzvah or wedding LOL) .

I agree with OP paying to have the girl over some other time soon.
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