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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note

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↑ amother ↓

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 2:03 pm

OP here. He says that he will never try to dissuade the children from being observant if they want to be, but he won't be mad at them if they aren't. He won't hide who he is (someone who isn't frum and who doesn't believe in g-d) from the kids because he does not think it's bad. If we move somewhere with an eruv we will all go to shul together on Shabbos and chaggim. We keep cholov yisroel and pas yisroel and always have, and won't stop. It was always hard to eat by friends because very few of them kept cy/py. The children will go to a Jewish school. He has never believed in g-d but tried for years. He is much happier now that he has stopped hating himself for not believing. He wants the children to have a choice in who they become, he was very involved in kiruv and says he had to be because that is what was expected by his family, community. I think he will be comfortable jewishly if we find a more modern community to be a part of in a larger area, which is what we are trying to do.

hillbubby

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 7:30 pm

OP, you are extremely patient and dedicated to your husband and children. Kol hakavod. These traits will get you through your difficult situation, IY"H.

I don't think you would be in this situation, however, if your husband were equally dedicated to you and the family. He may be a wonderful man and nice person and a good father but it seems that his top priority is being true to himself while your top priority is the happiness of your family. People make sacrifices for the sake of their closest family and you should not be the only one doing so. DH can believe whatever he wants to believe but when it comes to the home that the two of you have built and the children in it, a little bit of the "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy won't hurt him. Does DH have such a delicate psyche that warrants all this concern over the consequences of him repressing his true self? I would worry much more about your children's psyches while growing up in a home with mixed messages. Of course they can decide to live the way they want once they get older, but while they are in your home, the two of you should be working together to educate them to live as Torah Jews. Isn't that what you both wanted when you first married? If he changed, that's ok because there are no guarantees in life that people will stay the same or grow together. However, that doesn't negate the commitment he most likely made to you (whether spoken or unspoken) when you first married and the commitment he has as a parent to do the best for his children. If , for example, he doesn't want to wear a kippa, that's his own choice but not one that he needs to flaunt before his children. DH, put the kippa on before you walk in the door so your kids won't see you violating the rules Mommy and Morah and Rebbe teach them.
(I don't know if this is the case but I am just using it as an example of the proper attitude for DH).

Keep strong OP. You seem uniquely qualified to resolve this situation peacefully.

sourstix

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 7:41 pm

it is a possibility that if he sees your unconditional love, and no criticsm he will come back. I have heard and read that time and again.]
I am with the poster who said put the music on a timer. you are a special special special person. I just hope you come together on the same page soon.

pause

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 7:59 pm

There is a private forum for posters in your situation.here in the married life section. I don't have access to it, but I think that you will benefit. PM the mod for access.

ra_mom ↓

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 8:08 pm

amother wrote:

OP. He does stay off the computer if we have things to do, otherwise he will get on it and find something for the kids to watch. So, that's why I need more ideas about things to do. Like, actual activities. Are there any nice books about shabbos you like? I shoudl get a few and like you said have a family reading time. That sounds nice.

He uses his cell phone for reading news but not when the kids are around.

There is an awesome set of (costly) books called tell me the story about the parsha. I bought this for Chanukah and we really love to read the beautifully told parsha story and look at the great pictures each week. My two year old loves it. And my eight year old loves it.

We also have a big box of clics that we take out every Shabbos morning. The kids sometimes play together while we try to catch a few more winks and sometimes we all play together. It sort of became the Shabbos morning toy as we end up playing with it just on Shabbos.

We also often bring up our dollhouse with all the accessories just for Shabbos morning too, after the kids are done with the clics.

Then we switch off to the box of barbies. Or costume dress ups.

Basically we keep some of the toy containers locked away in the closet and take them out, one at a time, only when we have downtime, usually over the weekend. When done we put them right away before taking out the next an this way things stay neat and the toys stay relatively special.

We also have special Shabbos morning breakfast, cheese snacks Smile

Just some little things we do that make it feel like Shabbos with the girls Smile

↑ ra_mom

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 8:22 pm

amother wrote:

I am uncomfortable taping the lightswitches because I don't want him to feel like I am "managing" him. I want to give him the freedom to do what he wants, but to try to show him, hey, you don't NEED to turn on the light because it's already light here or whatever. I feel like putting restrictions on him in a visible way like that would not accomplish anything good. Instead he needs to feel like it's okay to not turn on the light. He is doing really well actually, the last few weeks. Maybe because he sees how I'm trying to make shabbos special and so he also wants to help. I don't know.

He is happy to mind his "frum-manners" when people are over, but he sometimes forgets things as it's been a while since he's been frum. Like, last Shabbos he forgot he has to take the crock pot pot out of the metal part before he gets cholent. That's just one example. So I'm not afraid of him blatantly breaking shabbos, and I know he wouldn't try to do it in front of people, but he messes up a lot of things now. Also, I want him to "be himself" and I feel like it will make him very sad to realize that I'm trying to make him hide "himself" around other people or that I'm worried about it, and he used to ask me why I can't love him for who he is (that was when I would cry on Shabbos about him doing or not doing this or that, but I've changed a lot and it's helped us so much). The good thing that I think makes him such a good person is that "being himself" also means wanting to give his children a great Shabbos experience.

We've been trying to get the eruv up for a long time. DH offered to ride his bike around to help get it up like two years ago, when he was not even frum anymore, but I guess there were city issues to deal with.

Maybe you can speak to someone and find out what is the most lenient forms of halacha so that when he seems to be transgressing in front of others you can be calm and know that according to some positions he is not actually transgressing? Like for example, we actually hold that once the cholent is fully cooked (Shabbos morning) we do not have to remove the crock from the heating element in order to serve cholent. It stays where it is in our home. And if anyone asks you, you can always say you hold that way.

If you need help with lights, would the Shabbat lamps help you at all? I love the ones we have in the bedrooms. We actually use them all week long as regular lamps using the on off switch.

What other examples do you need help with?

newmom1987

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 9:52 pm

it seems to me that if your husband is already breaking shabbos in all of the ways that you described, the eruv is the least of your concerns, and you should go to shul. Going to shul is the best way to create a "shabbos feeling" instead of sitting bored at home.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 10:15 pm

newmom1987 wrote:

no - you cannot tell the OP to be mechalel shabbos just because her dh is.

OP, you sound like a very special person! Not too many people in your position would be so patient and accepting. I also commend you for trying to make shabbos special.

I want you to know that many woman with little kids have a hard time on shabbos. It's hard being stuck at home all day with kids who get cranky and there is little structure.

The thing that makes a world of a difference and those who have it are so lucky ... it's good friends and neighbors who stop by. Just talking to other people dressed up for shabbos who stop by to wish you a good shabbos makes it feel like ...shabbos. You sound like you need more of a social life, friends who can be there for you. I would confide in 1 or 2 friends and let them know what is going on. Let them know that you need some support for a long shabbos. Of course let them know that you still care very much for your dh and dont want him to feel uncomfortable.

Would your dh be willing to talk to someone from "partners in Torah"? You said that he was frum and even involved in kiruv so he probably heard of them. I think it would be good for him to have an anonymous person to ask him questions to and delve in to the issues that are bothering him about Judiasm. Here is the link to read about this organization http://www.partnersintorah.org/.

You guys need people in your lives. You cannot do this alone. It will be hard and lonely for both of you. You both sound like amazing individuals who are so respectable and accommodating of each other. That will take you a long way. Dont stop davening that you dh should return with peace of mind.

MitzadSheini

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 12:12 am

Can I just add that we should be learning from you, not the other way around. Bayit sheini was destroyed bc of 562lack of respect - sinat chinam - not bc of mehalel shabat. (I am not encouraging breaking shabbat). You are building bayit shlishi everytime you show each other respect. Hashem has given you a challenge and you have absolutely risen to it.

You are inspirational, OP.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Jan 21 2015, 1:02 am

If it's within your means have you ever considered doing a weekly teleconference shiur like Rabbi Aryeh Nivin's personal development chabura. (He just now is starting a new shvat group.)
Sorry if seems a stretch - I've been in for 2 years and am currently in the 3-part class on Shabbos, but his classes cover a wide range of topics in personal development/hashgacha/emuna - a lot of Torah psychology & interpersonal relationships.
Hatzlacha!

saw50st8 ↓

Fri, Feb 06 2015, 10:50 am

OP,

My shul has a really nice Mommy and Me program. If you are interested, I can find out if I can send you the song list. My kids love it and it sounds like your kids are just the right age. Its a bunch of age appropriate songs about shabbos. My kids (1-7) all love it.

↑ amother ↓

Fri, Feb 06 2015, 11:52 am

saw50st8 wrote:

Yes would you please post it for me? Really appreciate it!

nyer1

Fri, Feb 06 2015, 1:48 pm

OP - I really really admire your commitment to your marriage and to yiddishkeit despite how hard this must be for you… kol hakavod.

I find that certain books help shabbos to feel special, a nap, a special toy, a special treat.. it sounds like you are doing some of those already. what about a special board game or the like?

just curious where you are located and why there isn't an eruv? I know it isn't easy to just pick up and move elsewhere , but is it possible that it would ever be an option? at least then you could take the kids for a nice walk, go to the park, socialize with other people, go to shul. shabbos can be such a long day without interaction with others … for both you and your husband and for the kids as well.

↑ amother

Mon, Feb 09 2015, 12:44 pm

nyer1 wrote:

Thanks nyer...was thinking about taking the older kids to paint ceramic plates and cups at one of those shops that fires them for you, and they would be special to use for the shabbos party we have. Might be really fun Smile

Been looking for some shabbos or jewish board games to order.

We are actively trying to move but it's hard for DH to find a new job..I want to move to a modern community that has an eruv for sure because I feel like that might be best for our family now, but it will be a big change for us and our families. DH also wants to move to this type of community. We are worried about how we will fit in but not so much that we aren't trying to move to a place we think we might fit. I do not want to say too much about why we live where we do but there are several main reasons frum families with children, or without children but planning to have children soon would live somewhere OOT without an eruv, and our family falls into one of those main reasons.

↑ saw50st8

Tue, Feb 10 2015, 7:45 am

amother wrote:

Yes would you please post it for me? Really appreciate it!

Sure, please pm me your email address (or post it here).

abound

Tue, Feb 10 2015, 8:25 am

othello
clics
magna tiles
rummikub (kids go on mom or dads team)
ball in the yard

chani8

Tue, Feb 10 2015, 8:45 am

I just can't imagine how hard this is for you, OP. You're walking on eggshells, trying to minimize his mechalel shobbos. I think you're trying to save his soul somehow. What would happen if you just stopped trying to save him?

Anyway, my family loves to play board games and card games, and read together on shobbos.

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