Am I overthinking? BIL wiping toddlers bottom

amother

Lightcoral

Mon, Jun 26 2023, 8:24 am

amother OP wrote:

Yes exactly. But if it's the same halachically as taking her to a male Dr I guess I'm overthinking?

You might be overthinking it, I don’t think there was anything wrong in this situation but it’s definitely not the same as a doctor. Doctors have different halachos then lay people.

Genius

Mon, Jun 26 2023, 8:36 am

Phoebe31 wrote:

Wait, its yichud for a 3 year old to be alone with her uncle? Never heard of that, according to whose shitah?

It’s yichud if they’re alone. Girls from age 3 with boys 13 and older and boys 9 with girls 12 I think. Op clarified that yichud was not an issue because they weren’t alone.

amother

Hyacinth

Mon, Jun 26 2023, 12:08 pm

In that situation, your brother in law didn't have much choice. But going forwards you might want to consider how you can prevent it from being an issue in the first place. Whether your dd only goes when your sister/sil is home, or you have other arrangements.

amother

Lawngreen

Mon, Jun 26 2023, 2:16 pm

Total Overreaction. BIL's all would have done that (we are Bubbie's and Zaidie's now) without batting an eyelash. Would you rather your DD not going to her cousins at all? Believe me we do not even think about it now how many and who I wiped in my home. (nephews, nieces, neighbors). it was not gross, and not abuse.

amother

Hyacinth

Mon, Jun 26 2023, 3:13 pm

amother Lawngreen wrote:

It's not gross or abuse, it's about what is appropriate. Would you say it's appropriate for your bil to wipe a 6yo girl or a 9yo girl? At some point I assume you would be saying it isn't appropriate. (And yes my 9yo does still ask for help at times.)
It's fine if your sensitivities say you're only starting to be uncomfortable at a slightly older age. But my sensitivities are to avoid these situations in the first place. If we're teaching children about body privacy and that their bodies should not be touched by other people, what sort of lesson are you teaching them to say that anyone can assist anyone with personal care?

amother

Petunia

Mon, Jun 26 2023, 3:15 pm

amother OP wrote:

My 3 yo went to go play at her cousin. BIL was alone with the kids (which was fine, his DD was there so not yichud) and I trust and respect BIL 100%

But 3 YO made #2 while there and couldn't wipe herself. BIL wasn't going to let her sit in it obviously and put on gloves and wiped her.

I'm totally not upset at BIL. What else could he do. It was really my fault for not anticipating. But should I not let 3 YO go play if BIL is there alone with the kids so this doesn't happen in the future? Or am I over reacting? If BIL was a SIL I'd be fine with it.

Not overreacting at all. BIL shouldn't be wiping a girl who isn't a baby.

I see he didn't have an option here, but try to prevent this from happening next time.

This shouldn't be happening in my opinion

amother

Skyblue

Mon, Jun 26 2023, 3:57 pm

I assume the BIL is married and has his own kids. I was going to say totally fine, probably until they can take care of themselves in bathroom - probably about age 5/6, but then there are always exceptions, so I would modify response to 99% of time its fine! OP knows her BIL, and I assume he's not a creep. As in all situations, you need to know the person you are dealing with. Seems like over thinking it in this case.

amother

Banana

Mon, Jun 26 2023, 4:42 pm

I think you’re over reacting. He was acting in an appropriate way, if she didn’t mind then I don’t think there is any issue. I had a similar issue on reverse where my niece came in from Israel and wouldn’t go to the bathroom because I would have to wipe her. Essentially I was a stranger and at some point I realized I couldn’t argue with her

Ema of 5

Mon, Jun 26 2023, 4:53 pm

imaima wrote:

She is so young
You have no reason to be upset at your BIL, it’s not even a question. If you worry about such things, it’s on you not to send her there. But what he did is a responsible thing to do

OP clearly said more than once that she’s not upset. She is asking about what she should do in the future if BIL is the only one home. At some point, OPs daughter will probably be like most children- generally old enough to do it on her own but occasionally needing help. I don’t think it’s so crazy to say that, as she gets older, she should only go if sister/SIL is there.

amother

Mon, Jun 26 2023, 8:51 pm

amother Hyacinth wrote:

BIL is not a creep. I don't get any kind of vibe like that from him and we've spent quite a lot of time together over the years we used to split a duplex and live next door to each other and our kids were in and out of both apartments all the time and the kids never seemed the slightest bit uncomfortable with him and he's very tznius and respectful of their space. Ironically that's why this didn't come up before because the kids would just come to their own apartment to #2. I asked my DD about it and she said she is fine with it because uncle is her family and her family can wipe her tush.

So she's not uncomfortable with it. And I don't find him a creep. I guess the only question is if it's a halachic issue or if it's a generally not tznius situation.

amother

Hotpink

Mon, Jun 26 2023, 9:13 pm

I don't think it was a problem, but I would try to prevent it from happening again

As part of body safety, I teach my kids that no one should be touching or looking at their underwear area.
When another adult wipes them (which I understand why they did(, it sort of undermines the safety message.

Unless your rule includes wiping (like our morah is allowed to)

In our house, mommy and tatty can wipe my 3yo, and she does take baths with her 5 yo sister, but she's careful to close the door so other siblings don't see her getting dressed.

It's a chinuch for safety and tznius.

imaima

Tue, Jun 27 2023, 4:15 am

Ema of 5 wrote:

Yes I know she said „I am not upset at bil“.
But I even find this idea bizarre. There is even no room for discussion whether or not she could be upset with him.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Jun 27 2023, 4:19 am

amother Hyacinth wrote:

yes this exactly
don't second guess yourself
to each her own

amother

Cherry

Tue, Jun 27 2023, 5:02 am

Am I the only one that wouldn't appreciate being left to watch a kid who I have to wipe unless it is an emergency?

Everyone is so focused on the other question, but is it right to just assume someone else will wipe your kid?

I am not directing this at the op, she said she didn't realize it would happen. I am referring to everyone else's nonchalance about this. Are you really all ok wiping all your children's playdates?