What happens to cc debt when someone dies?

amother

Lemonlime

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 2:14 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Can we please stop passing judgement?

Its not judgement, just fact. Legally it is credit card theft and fraud, and the relative could theoretically get arrested for it.

Even if the deceased gave instructions/permission to do it, or if it was an authorized user on the card, once the account holder dies it is fraud to use the credit card. Legally.

It may have been with good intent and for a good reason, but it was still stealing. Money doesnt just come from thin air, it was coming from somewhere.

leah233

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 2:14 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Can we please stop passing judgement?

No.

When someone is clearly of guilt of theft I can say so.

Living by לוֶֹה רָשָׁע וְלֹא יְשַׁלֵּם וְצַדִּיק חוֹנֵן וְנוֹתֵן is more important than not being judgmental

Chayalle

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 2:15 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Can we please stop passing judgement?

I don't understand this comment. We are given brains to judge right from wrong. Using someone else's credit card to steal from the cc company is wrong. It's the kind of judgement we are supposed to make.

amother

Lemonlime

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 2:22 pm

Every state has different laws, but here is for NJ in case anyone is curious:

The cc debt cannot be transferred to another person. Debt collectors or cc companies are not allowed to reach out to the family or next of kin to collect the debt, or make it seem like they are now responsible. However, the persons estate is responsible to pay the debt.

In NJ, debts need to be paid from the estate before heirs can collect their share. If all of the money would go towards debt, then there is nothing left to inherit. The executor of the estate is the one responsible to pay the debts from the estate, but there is no longer a requirement to inform the cc companies of the death. It is on the cc company to reach out to the estate within 9 months (I think) to collect their debt, otherwise it is waived.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 2:23 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Are we supposed to judge someone elses actions when that person is not here to defend him or herself?

ETA - where is DLKZ? We are supposed to judge OUR OWN ACTIONS and one may conclude that they wouldnt do this (please Hashem dont test me). BUt are we asked to be judges on other peoples actions? Read Pirkey Avos 4:8. אל תהיה דן יחידי

Chayalle

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 2:51 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I am not personally judging a person. (did he have starving children at home, and got bread?)

I am judging an action. Taking a cc of a dead person and using it to get away with paying is stealing and under most circumstances, the wrong thing to do.

amother

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 2:57 pm

One would think that cc companies will limit the credit limits of the elderly if they could just max out their credit cards before they pass. Or maybe they made enough money from interest throughout the years...
This has been bugging me lately...
What if the deceased didn't leave much? Only a heavily mortgaged home?

amother

Steelblue

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 2:59 pm

amother Red wrote:

It depends on so many things.

Someone I know passed in a freak accident, he left a young wife who was a sahm with many little children. They did not own anthing
within an hour of his passing, a relative came over, took all his ccs that were not joint accounts and maxed it out. And the amount he used, he put for credit at the grocery and butcher.
It was crimimally smart. But still wonder if that was legally or halachikly ok.

similar but with a twist I know someone who was terminally ill and maxxed out their own cards with the knowledge that no one will be around to pay off the bill

B'Syata D'Shmya

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 3:02 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Im not sure of that. We can agree to disagree.

amother

Tulip

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 3:08 pm

amother Steelblue wrote:

similar but with a twist I know someone who was terminally ill and maxxed out their own cards with the knowledge that no one will be around to pay off the bill

Why weren't they concerned with being asked how they could do such thing in the next world?

Usually when a person is terminally ill they busy themself with Teshuva. This person did the oppisite.

doodlesmom

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 4:45 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

Why weren't they concerned with being asked how they could do such thing in the next world?

Usually when a person is terminally ill they busy themself with Teshuva. This person did the oppisite.

He probably used it to make it easier for his almanah and orphan children.

Legally he was allowed to use his cc while he was alive.

I guess this question you can ask from anyone buying on credit card without knowledge of how they’re gonna pay it back.
But that’s what credit card companies are here for.

amother

Silver

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 4:46 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

Why weren't they concerned with being asked how they could do such thing in the next world?

Usually when a person is terminally ill they busy themself with Teshuva. This person did the oppisite.

Let’s not judge a terminally ill person before we are in their shoes.

It’s not like we’re innocent from our own aveiros. May we never be tested in such a horrible way

amother

Tulip

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 5:01 pm

amother Silver wrote:

Let’s not judge a terminally ill person before we are in their shoes.

It’s not like we’re innocent from our own aveiros. May we never be tested in such a horrible way

Maybe and hopefully the person had a reason that Hashem will accept .

I suspect however that this wasn't the first act of theft and dishonesty in that person's life. Most people would have to be very numb to the severity of an aveira of to use the very knowledge of their imminent demise as a reason to engage in more of it.

doodlesmom

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 6:04 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

So if he used it to pay for his treatments etc without knowing how he’s gonna pay for it, even figuring that if he dies chv his orphans will not be responsible, then you would think he’s in the wrong?

amother

Silver

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 7:37 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

That’s judging again.

Hashem will take care of the judgement. No worries.

We can focus on judging ourselves and becoming better people. That’s a lot more productive

amother

Pansy

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 7:41 pm

amother Lemonlime wrote:

Yes, the cc would have to file a claim against the estate. Depending on what type of assets the estate has, such claim may or may not be collectible. Usually, it's not worth the cc company's time to bother with it, and they will agree to negotiate the debt down.

When my mil passed away, she had some slight cc debt that the company would have mostly waived. We asked a shaila and were told that it would be an aliyas neshama for her if her estate pays the balance in full, nevertheless.

So it's worth it to ask your own shaila.

amother

Thu, Dec 28 2023, 9:30 pm

I think it is safe to assume that most Middle class people, especially religious Jews, these days have significant amounts of cc debt. Those of you who don't, kol hakavod. Please teach me your ways. And unless we catch a big windfall and/or win the lottery in the next 40 years or so, I'd hate to have our kids inherit our debts.