S/o $300k CLEANING HELP IS A LUXURY!

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amother

Oatmeal

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 5:09 am

I would rephrase it:
Each family defines their budget. For some, a nice sheitel every two years goes high on the list. For some, it's a luxurious vacation. For some, weekly manicures. For some, it's cleaning help.

I don't really care what other people use their budget for. I spend mine how I like, and don't look too closely at other people's budgets (except their amazing Amazon and AliExpress finds, those I'll take all the links).

Except when it turns into a request for tzedekkah. Because the family that can't keep within their budget but spend nonstop isn't something I'll support. But if it's a genuine need, then I hope there is tzedekkah to support it.
We usually donate generously to our shul's discretionary fund, where the rav can allocate the money to people how he thinks is appropriate. So that for those for whom these luxuries are a genuine need, they can hopefully get it.

scintilla

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 5:15 am

amother Babyblue wrote:

You did put a disclaimer at the end, and I hate to break it to you - but a lot of people fall under the categories you listed.

I'm a mom with executive function issues, and although I am super successful in my work life, I am the worst homemaker known to man.

My family would be considered in the top 1% of dysfunctional families if not for my cleaning help. It is NOT a luxry for a lot of people. Be thankful you can manage without the help, but a lot of people can't.

Just going to add, I have a family member that thinks im spoiled rotten because of all the help I have, she doesn't realize how necessary it is, and as long as she isn't in my shoes she has no right to judge me.

This x1000.

Don't judge. Another person's need is a luxury to me...we really NEVER know what's going on in someone else's life no matter how much we think we do.

amother

Cognac

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 5:30 am

OP is a breath of fresh air. So many have a myopic view of cleaning help, maybe inherited from the previous generation.

The cleaning lady sure doesn’t have a cleaning help and often has multiple kids. Why do YOU need HER and not the reverse. It’s because it became the standard to have a quasi servant who cleans up after you and your kids. To call it a need would be absurd if we weren’t so used to it.

In some communities it is the bungalow colony. In others it is the winter vacation to Miami. It may be matching $80-90 kids shoes that secular middle income parents would balk at. It can be yom tov clothes or Sunday music lessons. It may be a leased minivan (“It’s worth it for the peace of mind”- not. It’s far far cheaper to finance a low mileage five year old vehicle). It’s hosting and catering the shabbos sheva berachos for 150 people that costs as much as a low end wedding. It’s the 2-3 bedroom apartment for newlyweds. A 3500-4000 sq ft house with 3-4 bathrooms. And so much more.

So many in our communities accept things as a given without ever questioning if there is a real need or simply a situation that they have gotten used to that is a faux need and can possibly be expendable when times are tight.

It’s time we started thinking out of the box. It would empower us, giving us genuine choices and flexibility when we simply feel stuck without options.

amother

Daisy

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 5:30 am

amother Daphne wrote:

I have executive functioning issues and so does my spouse. We worked very hard, use lots of tools and accomodations, have been to coaching or therapy, take medications when and if needed and we work it out.

We bought a wet dry vaccum that can sweep and mop in one. We are okay with things not being perfectly clean.

I don’t know if you pay for therapy and medication, or it’s covered by insurance; but if you’re paying, it’s probably more expensive than cleaning help.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t do this, of course; just addressing the part that relates to this thread.

amother

Catmint

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 6:03 am

amother Raspberry wrote:

OP, I agree with you so much. I think it is only in some of the frum world that it is a must. The rest of the world manages without cleaning help. I havent ever heard the need for cleaning help the way Ive heard about it on this site.

The rest of the world has Saturday AND Sunday for cleaning.
They don't spend all day Friday preparing large meals for Saturday.
They tend to have small families and more money for other conveniences like takeout.
They usually live in an area with others of a similar socioeconomic level.

It's not really fair to compare.

mommy3b2c

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 7:08 am

amother OP wrote:

It’s not my definition, it’s the accepted definition in economics.

And I don’t think my list is all that huge or that the majority of frum women fall under those categories at all times in their lives.

Why did I make this post? Because on this site it’s constantly touted as a need, regardless of circumstance.

I would say the majority of frum women fall under those categories or other “special” categories.

amother

Cerise

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 7:11 am

I work part time. Dh doesn’t lift a finger due to lack of time. I had to give up my cleaning help this summer due to finances. And you know what it’s really really hard! It’s hard to find the time and strength to do it all. And yes maybe it’s my issue that I can’t handle a dirty home but I wish I could get cleaning help again.

amother

cornflower

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 7:19 am

I don't have executive functioning issues. I BH have a very helpful husband.
DH and I both work full time.
When I was pregnant with my 3rd, I told him either we have cleaning help once a week or I'm going to have a nervous breakdown.
We got cleaning help.
We still spend an hour + every single night putting away toys, sweeping the floors, doing the dishes, doing laundry etc.

amother

Powderblue

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 7:25 am

amother OP wrote:

Yes, a lot of people fall under those categories. But not everyone does. Again, this is addressed to people who do not.

And then there are people like me who didn’t fit into the category so I forced myself to work 40+ hours and do all the housework myself , since my family members really are not helpful in that department and I can’t force it if they just won’t and eventually I got very very sick. Now instead I’m paying thousands in doctors bills and medication when those thousands could have gone to cleaning help. Because as the doctors confirmed , I have too much on my plate and need to take it easier than I am. So now I got cleaning help. I wish I realized how necessary it was as a preventive health measure . There is no point in turning yourself into a shmattah when in the long run it will catch up to you .

amother

Melon

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 7:37 am

There's also a difference between cleaning help 3 times a week so that you don't have to do your own laundry or dishes and can live in a spotless house, and cleaning help once a week or once every other week for those heavy cleaning tasks so you don't live in a pigsty that makes people scared of visiting you.

amother

Cerise

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 7:42 am

I’ll really trying hard to understand how it’s a luxury.
Kids leave house by 8:40 Daven till 9
9-12, clean up from the morning, make dinner, make and eat lunch. Do laundry. Take care of phone calls bills etc. run random errand. Prep a bit for work ( I teach)
12-4:30 work
4:30-10 supper multiple times as ppl straggle in. hw showers bedtime give kids attention. Clean up from night. And gasp a few minutes to chill

Where is there time for cleaning bathrooms, washing floors, vacuuming,changing linens, polishing furniture, etc etc etc

Let me tell you there isn’t time. I mostly haven’t had cleaning help during my marriage and I’m a burnt out mess!

gootlfriends

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 7:47 am

amother Melon wrote:

Thank you. Most of us don't have it 3× a week, just once.

amother

Navy

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 7:57 am

gootlfriends wrote:

Thank you. Most of us don't have it 3× a week, just once.

The thread this is a spin off from was talking about 3x weekly. Which is totally OK if you have the money or can juggle your budget. The problem is that she can't afford it on her current budget and is continuing to fall deeper into debt.
Based on the premise of this thread, she should work on cutting her grocery bill by serving more economical meals so she can afford it.

amother

Cantaloupe

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 8:05 am

Most people are falling apart with all the pressures and expectations of society and the Jewish world. Practically speaking for most people it’s cleaning help or living in a pigsty. Most cannot do the cleaning physically or emotionally.

amother

Mauve

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 8:07 am

amother Cognac wrote:

Not adding anything to this but massive applause for the bolded.

amother

Ultramarine

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 8:09 am

amother Catmint wrote:

This!

Bnei Berak 10

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 8:13 am

amother Catmint wrote:

ITA
We usually have larger families and Shabbos plus YT and we have it least 25 hrs less time to do so much more work.
I've never heard that Chazal or anyone else insists on that a woman must complete every task on her own and that household help is forbidden.

amother

Azure

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 8:18 am

amother Cognac wrote:

OP is a breath of fresh air. So many have a myopic view of cleaning help, maybe inherited from the previous generation.

The cleaning lady sure doesn’t have a cleaning help and often has multiple kids. Why do YOU need HER and not the reverse.

It’s time we started thinking out of the box. It would empower us, giving us genuine choices and flexibility when we simply feel stuck without options.

The cleaning lady doesn’t make Shabbos. She can chill all day or use the day to take care of needs. The cleaning lady doesn’t have Rosh Hashana followed by a fast, followed by the kids home for two weeks during which 4 weekdays are Yom Tov and Shabbos still has to be taken care of besides. The cleaning lady doesn’t have Pesach. The cleaning lady has no idea what a three day Yom Tov looks like. She doesn’t make a bris a week after giving birth.
It’s time we start finding a place between pampering ourselves and killing ourselves that keeps us sane and healthy.

amother

Fuchsia

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 8:49 am

OMG, thank you OP! What a response, and what a shame.

Thank you OP for validating those of us without the loud voices, who work hard, live within our means, and can’t risk going into debt for the ‘frum standard.’

We’re not poor per se- we’re in chinuch. My kids wear hand me downs. We don’t eat fleishig during the week. We have a small home. We’re respected, upstanding community members. We have to hustle to make it work without cleaning help because we pay for gas, medical necessities, and food (no stamps here!)

Yes, I’d LOVE cleaning help. Yes my family would benefit from it tremendously. I cry about it sometimes. I work as hard as I can to have a respectable income, care for my family, while serving the klal.

It eats me up when all I hear is ‘more cleaning help,’ ‘feed kids tuna and get cleaning help’ (we eat tuna already)…. Some is just can’t, and it has to stop being the assumption that it’s a given.

I do my best to clean my house. My kids friends all love it here, as do our friends. BH! It’s not the fanciest place, gleaming place or most ‘yeahivishly put-together’ house… because we can’t do that on our budget, which is earned by teaching your yeahivish kids.

All OP wanted was our voices heard; not to be silenced.

Ema of 5

Fri, Jul 28 2023, 8:51 am

amother OP wrote:

I am so ticked off by the recent threads.

Let me shout it from the rooftops: CLEANING HELP IS A LUXURY!

For SAHMs
For WAHMs
For WOHMs

It is a luxury.

It's okay for someone who is deeply in debt to let their help go. Some can afford to hire someone to do their dirty work for them, and some cannot. It's the way of the world.

You can argue that it is necessary for the working mom who is out most of the day, or for the exhausted mom with a large family who can't keep up with the housework, and yes, sometimes (maybe often) it should be given priority on the family budget over other discretionary expenses like expensive clothing, takeout and dry cleaning.

It's important.

It makes mom's life so much easier.

It keeps the household running smoothly.

But so do a lot of other things. Like takeout twice a week, daily outings with friends, luxury vacations whenever the desire to get away from the daily grind arises. But we all understand doing without these things if we can't afford it. So why is it different with cleaning help??

I just don't get people who say it's a need.

Who says a spotless house is a need? Who says it's ok to go into debt so you can go to sleep every night with an immaculate kitchen?

I work. I have a large family. Of course I'd love lots of cleaning help, but I understand that we just can't afford it right now. So we make it work somehow.

For all of you who can afford your help (even if it's a tight squeeze) and love having that help and wouldn't survive without it, I'm thrilled for you. Really.

But for all others, to just hire (expensive!) help as is so often advised on this site when you're already not making it through the month just to make your life easier? How is that okay?

Disclaimer: I am talking about the average mom here. I am NOT talking about anyone who falls under any of these or similar categories: Mom of a SN child who makes cleanup impossible. Mom who has executive functioning issues. Mom who is mentally or physically unwell. Mom who has an absent/dysfunctional husband and needs to play all his roles along with her own. Etc. I know cleaning help can save a home from falling apart under these circumstances, but I'm talking about an average, functioning home.

When did cleaning help become a NEED for every single mom, working or not?

If someone says cleaning help is a necessity for them, who are you to say otherwise? Personally, my house would be unlivable if I didn’t have cleaning help. I won’t go into why, because I don’t feel the need to defend myself, especially to someone anonymous. Who made you the judge and jury of who needs cleaning and for whom it is a luxury?

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