Complete independence for 18 year old

amother

Caramel

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:09 pm

At this age, if you really want to encourage an independent trip with a friend, I would consider a location in the US with a sizeable frum community, or Israel.

amother

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:09 pm

actually there is one thing that I wouldn't be too happy abt.. she would need to travel with a smartphone for navigation purposes. she doesn't have one normally.

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 15 2024, 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Lightblue

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:10 pm

All the people who are worried about safety... have you actually been to Iceland?

I have and would realllllly not be worried about the safety of two 18 year olds with phones and ATM cards and a planned itinerary. It is not an unsafe country at all.

amother

Lavender

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:12 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

not rly an option. very caught up with work... I'd feel really bad if she wasn't able to go.

in regards to needing to be more mature, more aware do you think it would be helpful to have a long safety talk? giving her a crash course on how to travel by yourself? don't you think that can prepare her sufficiently?

I don't think just talking to her would make her more aware. She needs to experience the world before being savvy enough to travel alone.
What's her level of independence till now?
Why do I get the gist that you think that once our kids turn 18, they should be free to do as they please? Why do you feel that you must allow her to do it, just because she wants to do it? Independence is generally built up with the years, as the kids age. It shouldn't suddenly happen once the kids turn 18.

amother

Caramel

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:12 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

actually there is one thing that I wouldn't be too happy abt.. she would need to travel with a smartphone for navigation purposes. she doesn't have one normally.

Ok, well if you're comparing her to secular 18 years olds...

mommyhood

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:16 pm

Has she traveled a lot before? I would feel more comfortable if she’s been on planes, gone to places without frum resources before versus only ever flown to Miami. If not I wouldn’t necessarily tell her I don’t let but I would suggest going someplace else for a first trip and go to the more exotic places once she has more experience.

amother

Foxglove

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:18 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

A crash course on how to travel by yourself? What would that look like?
What happens if anything that wasn't in the crash course happens? Will she know what to do?

amother

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:19 pm

amother Caramel wrote:

Ok, well if you're comparing her to secular 18 years olds...

CV not doing that... she's a great frum kid. just very mature and independent. she's capable and responsible and has gone to Israel on her own already. wouldn't compare her to a secular kid just wanted to show that in the world, giving independence to 18 yr olds is normal. (she'll be turning 19 after the summer)

and no I'm also not saying that once they turn 18 there should be no involvement on my end whatsoever. no not at all. I'm saying that I think I'm safe to step aside and let her make her decisions unless I see she can't be trusted. was wondering what u guys would say

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 15 2024, 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Navy

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:23 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

actually there is one thing that I wouldn't be too happy abt.. she would need to travel with a smartphone for navigation purposes. she doesn't have one normally.

The smartphone would be the least of my worries.

I think at this age, it would be ok to go on a trip somewhere in US or Canada (if you are based in North America).

I wouldn't do international travel, to a country she has no experience

lamplighter

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:25 pm

I think it depends a lot on the individual child, how mature they are, how much real life experience they have.
How often do they travel, have to take care of their own responsibilities, navigate strange places etc.
I would feel more comfortable having a young girl travel to a place where there is a Jewish presence in case of emergency.
Lots of pre conversations are in order, it's not a yes or a no. It's a question of is she prepared and can she travel safely? What will she do if she falls and breaks a leg? If she gets lost? If she loses her friend? If no one near the speaks English? They need more kosher food? A group of boys or men start following them or flirting with them? How can she contact you? How can you contact her?
I also would give it thought if this is really not something done in your circles- why would she want to? Where did she get this idea? Does it have any social implications?

LovesHashem

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:31 pm

amother Lightblue wrote:

As a jew I'd be worried now. And stalkers and rapists exist in every country. If she is not savvy enough to realize she is being followed and find her way around and lose a man stalking her in a foreign country that's a big deal.

I'd say Israel and America are overall safe countries yet it's not safe for a woman who doesn't know the language to just walk around in America anywhere.

sequoia

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:36 pm

Everyone in Iceland speaks English, and it is much, much safer than any American city in terms of crime, etc.

Also, did someone on this thread really write that women shouldn’t sleep in hotels?!

amother

Apple

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:38 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

actually there is one thing that I wouldn't be too happy abt.. she would need to travel with a smartphone for navigation purposes. she doesn't have one normally.

Complete independence means she not only plans, arranges, and pays for her trip, but also that she makes her own decisions about access to internet and uses it as she wishes. Not that she is "allowed" to have a smartphone for her trip but otherwise not.
It doesn't sound like your daughter is quite at that point.

amother

Foxglove

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:38 pm

sequoia wrote:

Everyone in Iceland speaks English, and it is much, much safer than any American city in terms of crime, etc.

Also, did someone on this thread really write that women shouldn’t sleep in hotels?!

Nope. Someone's response was taken out of context as usual.

amother

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:41 pm

amother Apple wrote:

and why may I ask have you come to this conclusion?

and true, part of her independence is choosing to rent a smartphone for this trip. she doesn't want to have one otherwise. and yes, I asked her if she thinks she cantrust herself with having constant internet at her fingertips and she said yes. and she wants to put a whitelist filter on it so that she literally has only what she needs.

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 15 2024, 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Apple

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:46 pm

nicejewishgal wrote:

1. You mentioned paying for her trip.
2. You also mentioned about you yourself (not her in the previous post) not being happy about her needing a smartphone on the trip.
If she was truly an independent adult, neither of these factors would be there. It just wouldn't even have come up.

amother

Apple

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:49 pm

amother Slategray wrote:

Just curious when you all would send a child alone to travel internationally?

I wouldn't be "sending" rather, they'd be doing it on their own. Which depends on their personal level of maturity + their personal finances.

Genius

Wed, Feb 21 2024, 1:55 pm

I’m still wondering if your husband has no opinion. If I’d be deciding something like this, there would be a discussion with my husband first.