If you don't like saying how many children you have

octopus

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 12:51 pm

octopus wrote:

I agree. I think it's extremely dysfunctional behavior. I know people like this. Secrets and lies. I hate it. Just be straight. Of course people like this have no problem being curious and squeezing info out of you. Nope, not playing either.

I just want to point out I never ask people how many kids they have. But if you're a dodgy person in general, I think you have dysfunctional behavior. Im not a nosy person at all. And I don't ask people questions. But I've seen people take the secrets and lies to next level.

amother

Indigo

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 1:14 pm

Something that I struggle with, and maybe some of you can help me out, is what questions are acceptable to ask of a new (or newish) acquaintance or colleague. Someone who is like a mother of another kid in my kid's class level of closeness.

If I ask her if she works or what she works as, that may be a sore topic because maybe she's out of work or maybe she's sensitive about being a SAHM or maybe she wishes she could be a SAHM.

If I ask how many kids she has, that may be a sore topic because of infertility, pregnancy loss, loss of a child, or stam concerns about ayin hara.

If I ask what schools her other kids go to, that may be a sore topic because maybe she doesn't have kids of the opposite gender (but wishes she did) or maybe a child is in a school for children with special needs etc.

If I ask if she has plans for the upcoming midwinter vacation, that may be a sore topic because she can't afford to go away but wants to, or maybe she can't pull her sons out of yeshiva to join them, or maybe she think I'll judge her if she says she's going to Florida.

If I ask some sort of Jewish Geography question, that may be a sore topic because she's a giyores or a ba'alas teshuva and doesn't have a lot of frum family.

And so it goes. I find small talk to be a potential minefield for all of these reasons and I don't know what to do! But it's also weird to stand on line with someone I barely know at PTA and say "So, read any good books recently?" or "What are your thoughts on the Republican primaries?" or any question that you can ask someone that you have some sort of connection with.

Maybe this should be a spinoff.

hotpretzel

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 1:17 pm

amother Firethorn wrote:

I know a few people like this irl and it's very weird. It gives the impression that they are uncomfortable with the amount of children they have.
It doesn't give a vibe of oh I'm so blessed I don't want to create an ayin hara, even though that might be what they're thinking.

I'm just letting you know, op, so you know how it might come across to others.

I agree
It comes across very different then they're thinking....maybe like a humble brag

hotpretzel

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 1:19 pm

amother Indigo wrote:

You wait till she mentions things on her own and then can ask about it

Like once she talks about kids you can ask "how old are they?"

Success10

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 1:20 pm

amother Indigo wrote:

It's a good topic for a spinoff. I've asked seemingly young couples with no kids when they got married and the answer was several years ago.... so uncomfortable. But we can't just not make conversation ever! Not sure....

amother

Bottlebrush

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 1:28 pm

amother Indigo wrote:

Social skills. Ask once. If they're uncomfortable, change the subject and move on.

If you frequently get asked an uncomfortable question, prepare a neutral response and change the subject. If they insist on repeating their question multiple times, repeat your answer and start a venting thread on imamother Wink

amother

Stone

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 1:42 pm

amother Bottlebrush wrote:

I'm sorry, whatever happened to respecting people's feelings? It makes OP, and other people, uncomfortable. They have a right to answer in a way that makes them comfortable and makes the questioner comfortable.

OP is clearly looking for answers that will not make the questioner feel awkward.

I wouldn't go with "I'd rather not say." The best I can think of is, "quite a few." Or "a bunch." I would also probably add some tidbit to continue the conversation on a different course. "Quite a few. My oldest is having a bar mitzvah next year, we're starting to get ready."

When people don't answer the question, it makes me uncomfortable, both sides have feelings. That's why I really want to understand why people don't want to answer the question - it would help me be understanding towards people who don't like the question and could also help me come up with a good answer. Any insight?

amother

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 5:59 pm

For some context - I am a very friendly (possible even overly) person in general, I don't mind sharing where I got stuff, where I shop, what sales I got, what I do for a living, where/how I live, etc. There are many family pictures hanging all over my apt and I wouldn't stop anyone from counting. I also host guests and I wouldn't stop them from counting.

I'm very confident in the amount of children I have, bh. When someone does know how many or how old my oldest is, many times they'll compliment me.

Maybe there's a subconscious reason I don't like saying (due to a near death experience, some pg losses, etc), I didn't realize it was such a strange idea not to say number of children (even though quite a fee ppl agree with me).

And, I did correct my original post not because I realized how ridiculous it was (thanks for that), but I used the wrong term. That was not my intention. I don't like making ppl feel weird, embarrassed or anything else. I will always continue the conversation in a friendly way.

Tao

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 6:21 pm

SuperWify wrote:

Work on your confidence. Your family is a pride and credit to you no matter how big or small it is. You have nothing to ashamed of. You’re certainly NOT a fail. I also have a very small family. There’s no shame.

For someone that lost a child I can imagine this question is very painful 💔

Yes, I said this too. I can understand someone who lost a child would find this question hard. It's probably the most difficult nisayon to bear.
However, pretty much everyone who has this shtuss, it's NOT because they lost a child and are in pain about that. OP, for example, actually said she has no idea why she doesn't like the question (sweetheart, if you don't know why, I certainly can't tell you).

I agree that it makes people feel stupid for no reason at all.
I will also say that unfortunately, you never know WHAT can be triggering for a person. We're all going through something. And you just need to remember that if someone asks a NORMAL question that just so happens to hit a sore spot (which could be anything at all, from what do you do to what are you making for supper tonight), they are not trying to hurt you. Just answer normally and move on from the topic.

For example, we had a very painful story about getting one of my kids into school. I don't get triggered when people ask what school he goes to. It's a normal question. Often people will raise their eyebrows or say, "Really? Why?" becasue it's not our family's type. They're asking a normal question and I'm mature enough to realize that, for heavens sake. I don't need to go into all the details, I just say, "yeah, every kid needs something different" or whatever, which is not a lie and does not make people feel dumb.

AlwaysGrateful

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 8:14 pm

I'm confused about the judgement on this thread.

There are so many things that are considered okay to speak about in some cultures and uncomfortable to speak about in other cultures. For example, in the US, the question "How much money do you have?" is considered insensitive. But why is it okay to ask how many kids you have and socially inept to ask how much money you have?

Also, it's interesting that nobody brought up the source of this. There is a concept that counting people brings ayin hara. See Rashi on Ki Sisa 31:12 and Shmuel 2:24 for the source of this.

You don't have to hold like that, and that's fine. And I understand that it's uncomfortable to be made to feel that you've asked an inappropriate question when you really think it's an okay question. But can't you just treat it the same way as if you bring in cookies for everyone to share and one person declines your offer? Just be gracious and continue the conversation, and assume that her reasoning has nothing to do with you.

cbsp

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 8:17 pm

AlwaysGrateful wrote:

Also, it's interesting that nobody brought up the source of this. There is a concept that counting people brings ayin hara. See Rashi on Ki Sisa 31:12 and Shmuel 2:24 for the source of this.

You don't have to hold like that, and that's fine. And I understand that it's uncomfortable to be made to feel that you've asked an inappropriate question when you really think it's an okay question. But can't you just treat it the same way as if you bring in cookies for everyone to share and one person declines your offer? Just be gracious and continue the conversation, and assume that her reasoning has nothing to do with you.

FWIW I brought it up (albeit without the actual sources) here on page 3:

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....20049

lakewood mom

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 2:07 pm

I’m all about being sensitive to other peoples feelings… but there are certain normal questions that come up as part of a conversation. Do you really expect us to be so politically correct and not ask someone- after she mentioned something about a child- because she may have lost another one?!? There are certain norms. You can’t expect people to walk on eggshells around everyone in case they get offended or triggered. It’s ridiculous.
The same can be applied if someone had a broken engagement. If you know someone in your neighborhood had a son who got engaged a few weeks ago- it’s normal to ask how the plans are going. Sometimes, the mother will say- the shidduch is over. Then you say, I’m sorry. Iyh the right one in the right time. And change the subject.
There are normal conversations and questions to be had- normal interactions. You can’t anticipate that someone may not be happy with an aspect in their life and it’s a taboo topic.

essie14

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 2:24 pm

lakewood mom wrote:

Exactly this.

If you have a school age child and you're on line at PTA, it's perfectly acceptable to ask the other mom if she has other children in this school. If this is her only child, ok. So you change the subject.
You can't be expected to steer away from any normal conversation topic.
What if she sunburns easily and you say, "wow, what beautiful sunny weather we've been having, huh?"
There has to be some give and take and normal social interactions.
My father is no longer alive , is no one allowed to mention their father in my presence?
I'm a functioning adult and I can handle questions about my parents.

amother

Ruby

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 4:59 pm

amother Garnet wrote:

My two cents.
When someone asks you how many kids you have and you avoid answering it makes the person feel like a crumb. Please put bein adam lechaveiro before these ideas.

No offence, just my two cents.
Please put bein adam lechaveiro (asking questions that might trigger others) before curiosity.
Think twice before you as something.