PJ Pants Continued = POLL!

chen

Tue, May 30 2006, 2:24 pm

Ruchel wrote:

in a house you can turn the heat on, use tons of blankets...

exactly my point--not all houses have central heating, and it is extremely dangerous to leave a kerosene or gas heater on all night. (FYI, a tzrif is a very plain basic wooden bungalow-type house, usually without central heating.) there is a limit to how many blankets you can pile on--and how many blankets some people have. not everyone is as well off as your family seems to be, and two thin blankets may be all each person has. (If you read some of the other threads you will find that some people don't even have money to get a "new" outfit at a thrift shop.)

mimsy7420

Tue, May 30 2006, 3:00 pm

What's the big deal. I knew when I turned 6 and went into grade 1 that I would not wear pants outside anymore. I know some girls stop even earlier. There is also peer pressure involved. None of my friends wore pants outside so why would I? I understood the difference between "sleeping clothes" and "outside clothes" - one doesnt wear their pjs outside. Even a 6 year old wouldn't be confused by that.

Ruchel

Tue, May 30 2006, 3:36 pm

ytwh1 wrote:

I know ppl who allow their daughters to decide for themselves not to wear pants. in other words, the daughters will see for themselves that it is MUCH BETTER to wear skirts. that way it will not be something that the daughter will rebel against. she will come to it herself.

It's a good idea, but what if she ends up prefering pants?

Ruchel

Tue, May 30 2006, 3:37 pm

only1 wrote:

The difference is that sometimes it's the contrary or almost...

Ruchel

Tue, May 30 2006, 3:39 pm

mumsy23 wrote:

not to mention the cost to heat a house so warm that you can wear only a nightgown to sleep...

Sorry but most people I know have a house at 20°C or + in winter, which is not warm but ok for a nightgown, esp. a thick one, esp. with blankets.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, May 30 2006, 4:46 pm

Ruchel wrote:

ytwh1 wrote:

It's a good idea, but what if she ends up prefering pants?

I will answer that by rewritting what I posted above:
I know ppl who allow their daughters to decide for themselves not to wear pants. in other words, the daughters will see for themselves that it is MUCH BETTER to wear skirts. that way it will not be something that the daughter will rebel against. she will come to it herself.
and it really works.

mimsy7420

Tue, May 30 2006, 5:03 pm

ytwh1 wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

ytwh1 wrote:

It's a good idea, but what if she ends up prefering pants?

Yup.

Ruchel

Tue, May 30 2006, 6:39 pm

ytwh1 wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

ytwh1 wrote:

It's a good idea, but what if she ends up prefering pants?

Many women prefer pants...

Crayon210

Tue, May 30 2006, 6:55 pm

I also think it's odd to "allow" your child to make the decision to keep any mitzvah on his/her own or at his/her pace, since the Torah isn't "optional". We are told "choose life" not "make a choice, I hope it's life", or something of the sort.

It's important to teach kids that Torah is non-negotiable.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jun 01 2006, 8:14 am

you are correct that it is important to teach girls halacha, but there are such things as women's pants (I am just being the devils advocate here, I dont wear pants) and there is also such a thing as a girl being too young to even know from the halacha yet and I believe that it does not matter then.
I will say that my parents let us girls choose when to stop wearing pants and I stopped b4 I was bat mitzvahed. all of my chevra wore skirts and so it was just the correct things to do.
I know other ppl that are pretty charedi (in USA) and the little daughter had a dress that had little sleeves. a friend asked, oh, shouldnt she not wear that b/c it is too short? and the mother said, no, its ok for now, she's so young that she does not know the halacha yet and we dont want her to become fanatical about it all. when the time is correct we will teach her the correct ways. and you know what? in both cases, my family and this friend, the children all dress in tzanua ways and none have rebelled with pants and little sleeved clothing.

brooklyn

Thu, Jun 01 2006, 8:28 am

Seems to me that many of you feel that pj pants are more tznua because they cover more, yet say that skirts are much better. In todays world pants in not considered only a man's garment. Woman wear pants for casual, business and formal situations and it is considered perfectly acceptable and normal. I would even venture to say that the clothing stores offer more pants than skirts. I know I sometimes have trouble finding skirts in some stores. So if pants cover more with less chance of an accidental updraft and is not considered beged ish in today's society. Why is it still so frowned upon?

mumsy23

Thu, Jun 01 2006, 9:03 am

There are two issues with pants:

1) Beged Ish 2) Outlining the separation between the legs.

Some poskim have teshuvah that state that beged ish is not an issue (for the reasons that you pointed out), but you still have the second problem. If you wear very very baggy pants, that do not outline the legs, then Halachikly, it is acceptable . However, in the american frum world, this is not accepted to do this and therefore, if you are part of this community, you should do the "minhag hamakom".

There are some very frum communities in israel where very baggy pants are acceptable.

Ruchel

Thu, Jun 01 2006, 12:07 pm

mumsy23 wrote:

There are some very frum communities in israel where very baggy pants are acceptable.

I didn't know that, I thought that only MO wore pants.
But I know there are some communities where pants are totally accepted because in their country women wore pants (Turkish, some Persian, Chinese, some Indian).

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 04 2006, 4:17 am

mumsy23 wrote:

what you said about pants being begesh ish...first of all, I thought we were talking about sleeping wear, not every day wear, so in that case, I know that I have worn my husband's pjs sometimes if mine are dirty or whatever. why should there be a problem with that? you are sleeping in it, not going to the park in it.

also, what you said about in american frum communities, it is not acceptable to wear pants, that is a big generalization. I know communities where it is acceptable for frum girls to wear pants.
and you also generalized about israel. I do not know of many such communities where wearing baggy pants is accepted. I am sure that there are but VERY frum places?