ripping your clothing!

ny21

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 9:23 am

he was told that when he visits the kottel

for the first time.................

his shirt! :r

I have never ever heard of t

Last edited by ny21 on Wed, May 16 2012, 10:58 pm; edited 2 times in total

DefyGravity

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 9:29 am

I was also told by Rabbi Belsky to do this the first time I visited the kotel.

ny21

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 9:38 am

I realy never heard of this!

thank you defy gravity for answering my post ! Crying

Nomad

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 9:44 am

yeah I heard of this too...

actually, when I went to the kotel the first time on a tour - our tour guide told us beforehand to wear a stinky shirt over our regular shirt because we have to tear it when we get there

I think its to remind us that even though we are visting the kotel - we still have to remeber that we are in galus

eee...hope he didnt tear up a good shirt!

ny21

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 9:52 am

how long has this been going on

Last edited by ny21 on Wed, May 16 2012, 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

chocolate moose

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 9:54 am

I don't know if you have to do it, we didn't.

yrs1025

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 9:56 am

If you wear a borrowed shirt to the Kosel, you don't rip it.

ny21

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 9:57 am

he is touring Isreal with a group of young teenager

50 kids will have to rip their Tshirts that they have just bought for the tr

Last edited by ny21 on Wed, May 16 2012, 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

chen

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 9:58 am

You are supposed to tear your shirt as a sign of aveilus over the churbon of the Beis Hamikdosh, the way you do when R"L you lose a member of your immediate family for whom you are going to sit shivoh. It's not just the first time you ever go to the kosel, but every time if you haven';t been there for 30 days or more. Some people who live in EY make sure to go more often so that they can avoid this. Other people come prepared with a vest or old shirt that they wear over their regular one for just this purpose.

It's not a new thing at all. I'm sure Motek can find the source for it.
actually: http://www.askmoses.com/articl.....44810

Last edited by chen on Tue, Jul 11 2006, 10:02 am; edited 3 times in total

ny21

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 9:58 am

thnak you!

I will tell him to borrow a T shirt! Wink

ny21

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 10:00 am

think this is a NEW thing!

Last edited by ny21 on Wed, May 16 2012, 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

ny21

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 10:02 am

can Someone make a poll!

if you have done this!
if you never heard about this!

I want to sleep tonight!

ny21

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 10:58 am

the group is not a religious group!

it is a group -to possibly make kids more religious !

DefyGravity

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 10:59 am

momoftwins wrote:

my relative is just a kid!

he is touring Isreal with a group of young teenagers!

I dont think this is neccesary!

50 kids will have to rip their Tshirts that they have just bought for the trip!

I think the parents wont like it!

and the kids will be upset also! Crying

They can rip their undershirt, that's what I did.

chocolate moose

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 11:05 am

Defy, doens't it have to be an outward gtarment? When we lost my dad I ripped an undershirt, but I was told it wasn't the right thing to do.............

DefyGravity

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 11:08 am

I don't know, I could be wrong. But if they're guys, they can just wear their undershirt or a cheap tshirt. They don't need to ruin anything expensive. Generally, people don't bring their best clothing when they do extensive hiking and other dirty activities b/c they know that the clothing may not come back in one piece.

chen

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 11:13 am

Actually I think if the non-religious group does kri'oh it will be a very good experience for them. The physical effort of ripping the fabric helps bring out the emotional energy and emphasize the grief over the churbon. If a teen can afford to take a vacation trip to EY, he can afford to sacrifice a T-shirt. The only issue is one of tznius for girls--they would NEED to have an outer garment over their regular shirt, same as a woman who is sitting shivoh.

ny21

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 11:21 am

Chen you have lost your calling!

you should have been a shrink!
many of the kids thankfully are on a scholorship for this program!

I would realy like to know when this whole thing started !

growing up I have never heard of this!

or I was in isreal such a long time ago-==that I dont remember!

shalhevet

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 11:40 am

momoftwins wrote:

I would reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly(saying this with a whiney voice)

would like to know WHO started this?

how long has this been going on?

I personally dont care for this! Crying

Umm... it has been going on for about 2000 years I think.
I imagine it was started by those Rabbonim after the destruction of the Beis Hamikdash (Temple).

"One who sees Jerusalem in her destruction says: "Zion has become a desolate wilderness" and when he sees the Bais Hamikdash he says: "Our holy and beautiful House in which our ancestors praised You has become burnt and all our precious things have become a destruction" and he tears. From where is he obligated to tear? From where he sees Jerusalem. And afterwards when he sees (the site of) the Beis Hamikdash he tears another tear , and each tear should be a tefach (handbreadth) in length.....
All these tears are done with his hand and when he is standing and he tears all the layers of clothing until his heart is revealed and he should never completely sew them up......
If he comes and goes from Jerusalem within 30 days he doesn't make a new tear but if it is after 30 days he makes a new tear."

Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chayim (661:2,4 and 5) (My translation)

People certainly do it today, including me.
The halacha is a woman only tears one layer of clothing so as to be tzniyus. There are days in the year when we don't tear such as Shabbos and Yom Tov (of course) but also Rosh Chodesh, Chol Hamoed and I don't remember which else. Check with your LOR. Some people deliberately go on these days so they won't have to tear (and also the next 30 days).

Now that we're entering the 3 weeks of mourning over the destruction of the Bais Hamikdash let's all try and heighten our sensitivity to what we have lost.

ChavieK

Tue, Jul 11 2006, 2:13 pm

Great explaination & sources mummyof6. I think also after chatzos on Fri some pple don't tear.Also some pple tear when they can see har habayis.
It is a moving experience & I've done it quite a few times.One more thing, you shouldn't tear on something you were going to throw out anyway, that is not aveilus.It can be something inexpensive. I bought my daughter a brand new shirt but it was only $4.00. She didn't like it much but it was repectable shirt.