Spinoff of: Is cleaning help a luxury?

michal817

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 9:43 am

Grandmama wrote:

The SAHM need it even more so that they can have more time and energy to take care of their families.

I don't understand this. You're saying that a women who is home all day needs cleaning help more than a working woman? What exactly is the SAHM doing all day that she doesn't have time to clean while the kids are at school, the baby's taking a nap, etc? I would think that the woman who works outside the home from 9-5 would need the cleaning help more - when she gets home, she has to make supper, help kids with homework, spend some quality time with them, and clean the entire house/apartment?

Grandmama

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 9:55 am

michal817 wrote:

Grandmama wrote:

The SAHM need it even more so that they can have more time and energy to take care of their families.

I did not mean that a working mother does not need help. I meant that a working mother will usually take help without thinking twice, whereas a SAHM thinks just because she is at home she has to do it all.
A SAHM running a large household with many children, may wish to take a nap when the baby naps, and may want to be well rested for her husband and children that come home from school as well. She also has to shop, and do many other things, so she may not have the time to clean either. The women of our generation are not strong enough to spend 7 or 8 hours doing heavy cleaning, and being there for their family. Even in the previous generations, almost every family had help, with cooking, cleaning, and laundry. We are princesses, we are royalty, and just as our husbands are kings, we are queens.
We should strive for a lovely clean palace, and lots of cleaning help. (kosher means clean. A clean home is a kosher home, cleanliness is very important for many reasons.)
I was even told that Reb Yankele ZTL used to tell women to daven on Rosh Hashana for good cleaning help throughout the year. We can all add that to our lists, and maybe with enough cleaning help we will feel like we are on vacation all the time.

Inspired

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 10:04 am

michal817 wrote:

Grandmama wrote:

The SAHM need it even more so that they can have more time and energy to take care of their families.

Why would she need to clean the entire house if no one has been home all day? I never understood this. When I worked full time with 2 small kids who were out of the house we came home, I made a quick dinner bathed kids and put them to bed then put in one load of laundry and straightened up the kitchen and the little bit of mess laying around. That amount of cleaning doesn't compare in the slightest to when I was a SAHM with 2 little at home all day. Let alone 2 little kids and a few big kids.

Liba

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 10:08 am

So working mothers don't shop? LOL

I have a clean home. It takes 3-4 hours of heavy cleaning a WEEK to keep it that way, not 7-8 hours a DAY.

Woah.

I have been a WOHM, WAHM and SAHM. In order of needing help I would say #1 WAHM (we are talking full time) needs help the most since they can't leave any messes behind, my kids kids were home with me making messes while I worked that I couldn't clean up since I was working. #2 a WOHM since she has to work, take care of the home, shop, and do everything that a SAHM does PLUS work. #3 a SAHM. She is home to take care of the home and the kids. She may still need the help, but really, more than a working mother? Have you ever worked?

When I was a full time WAHM with no help I told my DH that either we get cleaning help or I was quitting. I couldn't do both! So we got 3-4 hours of help every other week. It was $100 a month that let me stay sane while making over $2,000 a month.

I don't know what you think working mothers do that gets them help besides get cleaning help. Them being more likely to get it is because they need it more.

michal817

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 10:12 am

(Responding to Inspired) You're assuming that if a woman works, then no one's home all day and therefore there's no mess. That's not always the case. Maybe the woman has older children who can babysit the younger kids when they get home from school. Maybe the husband comes home earlier than she does and therefore all the kids are home. Maybe the woman has the babysitter watch the kids at home, so they're in a familiar environment. In any of those cases, there will be plenty of mess to clean up once she gets home from work.

Agreed, if no one is home all day, then aside from regular straightening up (and maybe dusting!) there's probably much less to clean. However, there are many many cases where your presumption is simply false.

Grandmama

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 10:15 am

Liba wrote:

So working mothers don't shop? LOL

A lot depends on the size of your living space. I have always worked, whether at home or out of the home. If your home takes 3-4 hours once a week or every other week to clean, then that is because your home is much smaller. Some homes do take 7-8 hours once a week to clean. Some people live on 2 or 3 floors with many kids and many rooms/bathrooms. Some people I know with large families take cleaning help several times a week. So while they may shop at H & M and dress their 10 kids for a very small amount of money, the cleaning help is more important to them.
You can walk into their homes at any time of the day or night and it looks like Erev Pesach.
There is clean, and there is clean.

Inspired

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 10:16 am

Liba wrote:

So working mothers don't shop? LOL

Yes, I have as I posted above. Full time, outside the home, part time and part time WAHM. And when the kids were out of the house the whole time I was I do not see a comparison at all to the amount of accumulated mess. I now have kids home all day and some home from lunch on and some out of the house all day. The ones that are out of the house all day are not making a mess. eating lunch out of the house = no lunch time mess= less cleaning needed. Bathrooms that aren't used the whole day do not get very dirty. Not nearly as dirty as one used all day by a toddler and Mommy and then from 1 by a preschooler and a 2nd grader, etc. I am saying from my own experience there is no comparison.

Inspired

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 10:19 am

michal817 wrote:

I'm not assuming anything. I was stating my experience.

Liba

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 10:28 am

Grandmama wrote:

We have three floors, three bathrooms, and a good size house. We do light house cleaning in between the heavy cleaning. Sweeping after meals and going over the floor with a damp rag are not heaving cleaning in my book. Maybe that is the difference in time? What we count as heavy cleaning? We only call floors, windows and bathrooms heavy cleaning in my house. Smile

Insipred, I wasn't addressing you. I understand that if there are little kids home making messes it is different than no one home making messes. I have never worked and had no one home so my experience is not the same as one who works outside of the home while there are no small children. None of my kids have been in daycare, except AC because therapy here is done in a daycare setting at that age, but that is a different story. Most of my time working was while I was home with small children at my feet and slightly bigger children around the house, shopping and cooking to do, and clocking in and out to get my kids to and from school and therapy appointments.

The rest of my time, when I was working outside the home, my kids were with me. I was in charge of feeding them, keeping them happy and out of the way in the office and cleaning up their messes in an office setting. Talk about stress!!

michal817

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 10:38 am

Inspired, I'm aware that you were talking about your own experience, but I was responding to this part of your post:

Quote:

Why would she need to clean the entire house if no one has been home all day? I never understood this.

I was just trying to explain that "working moms" doesn't necessarily equal "no one home all day".

Quote:

You can walk into their homes at any time of the day or night and it looks like Erev Pesach.
There is clean, and there is clean.

Grandmama, I guess this is a personal preference, but I'd be scared to touch anything in a house that was always that clean. I like a lived-in look, not a don't-sit-on-the-couches look. Wink

sarahd

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 10:47 am

life'sgreat wrote:

Grandmama wrote:

I know people, that do not own their own home, and cry poverty, yet they go to a hotel every month for two or three days. Its a cheap hotel, its nearby, and costs them maybe $200. They do not consider it a luxury.
They consider it a necessity to preserve their wonderful marriages. They live in small apartments, with lots of kids, and I guess this preserves their sanity. I know lots of people that go on vacations while owing other people lots of money. I know of some people that never take a vacation, they feel that their life is so wonderful as is, they do not need a vacation. Cleaning help? I do not think I personally know of one person in the USA that does not take cleaning help, from the poorest of the poor, the cleaning lady has to come at least once a week, or at least for the few months before Pesach once a week.
Cleaning help is not a luxury, it is cheaper than therapy.

Every MONTH shock

? Month? 200? Wow. You've got be filthy rich to be able to swing 200 bucks a month for vacation. I also don't think it is in any way a necessity.

Filthy rich to spend $2400 a year on vacation? So everyone who goes to the bungalow colony for a month must be a zillionaire. Bungalows cost $5,000 a month, don't they?

life'sgreat

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 11:01 am

sarahd wrote:

life'sgreat wrote:

Grandmama wrote:

Every MONTH shock

? Month? 200? Wow. You've got be filthy rich to be able to swing 200 bucks a month for vacation. I also don't think it is in any way a necessity.

Filthy rich to spend $2400 a year on vacation? So everyone who goes to the bungalow colony for a month must be a zillionaire. Bungalows cost $5,000 a month, don't they?

~~Oh, but many of them have food stamps.~~

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 1:05 pm

Grandmama wrote:

life'sgreat wrote:

Grandmama wrote:

I totally agree with you LG but apparently these people don't.
There are some people that live life according to their whims, not according to their reality.

As far as cleaning help goes, I do not know where those people live, but where I live (Brooklyn) NOT having cleaning help is almost unheard of. Some have more and some have less, but everyone has some.
Whether they are SAHM or working women it makes no difference. The SAHM need it even more so that they can have more time and energy to take care of their families. I know people that bake and cook everything from scratch, scrimp and save on almost everything else, but the cleaning help is not negotiable.

They're insane for doing the 200 a month vaca instead of a grand vacation once a year. That'd add up to what? $2400? That can get them a great vacation for a week to ten days.

I don't have a cleaning lady and I'm far from the only one that doesn't.

If you took a survey of everyone you knew that has a few kids, or more than a few, how many really clean their own homes? How many people do you know that never take cleaning help?
Maybe you know of some, I don't know of any.
I am thinking of the hundreds of people I know, and they all have at least a few hours of cleaning help when they can get it. Not everyone can get away once a year, some people cannot leave their work more than two or three days at a time. Its easier to find $200 every month, than to put away $2400. These people will take the $200 and spend it, because if they knew how to save $2400 they would be owning their own homes by now.

I guess this is why I don't live in Brooklyn.

I have 4 kids and I don't have cleaning help (aside from the household members Tongue Out

)

Grandmama

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 5:40 pm

life'sgreat wrote:

sarahd wrote:

life'sgreat wrote:

Grandmama wrote:

Every MONTH shock

? Month? 200? Wow. You've got be filthy rich to be able to swing 200 bucks a month for vacation. I also don't think it is in any way a necessity.

Filthy rich to spend $2400 a year on vacation? So everyone who goes to the bungalow colony for a month must be a zillionaire. Bungalows cost $5,000 a month, don't they?

~~Oh, but many of them have food stamps.~~

And lots of other goodies.

life'sgreat

Thu, Aug 26 2010, 6:46 pm

sarahd wrote:

life'sgreat wrote:

sarahd wrote:

Cute.

Not, but it's the reality. There are some crowds that yes, they have food stamps, and yes, they do the whole 'country' spiel.

So then be happy that they're going on $200 a month vacations and not spending $5000 on bungalows.

I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not sure that those that spend $200 a month on vacation are the same as those that spend $5,000 (or closer to $10,000 if it's for a full summer) on bungalows. The reality is that it happens that those that are on food stamps etc... sometimes also go to the mountains for the summer. I am tempted to make a poll, but I'd be surprised if people would honestly vote.