America's Next Top Model - modern orthodox jew contestant

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MamaBird

Sun, Sep 12 2010, 7:34 pm

I know a lot of Modern Orthodox Jews who would be offended by her, and would NOT give up Shabbos to become a model.[/quote]

I also know a lot of Modern Orthodox Jews who would never ever ever pose nude--especially for such publicity.[/quote]

yeah, it's cuz they're ACTUAL orthodox jews... Rolling Eyes

freidasima

Sun, Sep 12 2010, 7:38 pm

My father z"l used to say that a person can call himself what he wants but it doesn't mean that he really is what he says he is. You can say you are an american ten times a day and salute the flag on the hour but if you don't have citizenship....you aren't American.

About things like religious denominations it's harder as the lines don't have legalities...but in fact they do. Modern orthodox is a form of "Orthodox". Meaning the bottom line is orthodox. And as louche wrote, the bottom line of being Modern ORTHODOX is you have to keep to the halochic minimum of orthodoxy. That includes (but doesn't stop at) shabbos, kashrus, taharas hamishpoche. It also includes a modicum of tznius and I say modicum, but we all agree that it means dressing in a way that your average secular or non Jewish person wouldn't call you a hooreh (as my grandmother would have said). So anyone who is flashing, going around in underwear, topless, etc. is a hooreh, just stop a woman on the street, any color, any religion and ask her opinion.

If this gal flashed (Tamiri thank you for wasting your time for us), or said that she will be mechalel shabbos for a TV program, she ain't MO. She can say she is ten times a day but she is no MO.

Read my lips NO MO

louche

Sun, Sep 12 2010, 7:43 pm

freidasima wrote:

Read my lips NO MO

And no other kind of O either.

freidasima

Sun, Sep 12 2010, 7:46 pm

Could she be a radical charedi plant to try and discredit the MO?
No I didn't write that. Delete, delete, delete.

amother

Brunette

Sun, Sep 12 2010, 8:27 pm

Raisin wrote:

opinionated, there are chareidi people who bend halacha to suit their own needs. like the yeshivish woman on the other thread who goes to a beach in a bikini. How is that all that different than what this girl is doing? (ok, it's not on TV)

True. There are people who want to identify as MO to keep their friends but don't keep Halacha. It's sad.

Last edited by amother on Thu, Dec 31 2015, 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

Yocheved84

Sun, Sep 12 2010, 9:52 pm

No MO gal would ever flash the judges and then prance around in undies and a bra. It's also a shanda that she should say she's frum and act like that....Her poor mother.

louche

Sun, Sep 12 2010, 10:55 pm

OPINIONATED wrote:

louche wrote:

So what you're saying is "I know a lot of MO people would cheerfully be mechalel Shabbos to win a contest, but not all."

PLEASE tell me that's not what you meant.

That is certainly not what I meant. Most of my MO friends are not mechalel shabbos.

You're doing it again different words. MOST of your MO friends are not mechalel Shabbos means some of them ARE. And I maintain, and any genuine Modern Orthodox authority will back me up, that shmirat Shabbat is and has always been a basic tenet of Orthodoxy, modern or otherwise, and that anyone who is deliberately mechalel shabbos when it's not an issue of ignorance or pikuach nefesh, is not and cannot be called any flavor of Orthodox, modern or otherwise.

I am forced to conclude that you yourself don't actually know what Modern Orthodoxy is, and believe it to be a euphemism for "not frum" or for "Conservative but with better Hebrew skills". Neither of which is the case, but I have heard similar statements from others in the right-wing camp and know that it is a not-uncommon misconception.

Let's call a spade a spade, not a salad spoon. Your friend whose dh works on Shabbos? If he was ever truly Orthodox, modern or otherwise, he is no longer. the minute a person chooses to be mechalel shabbos (absent pikuach nefesh, which I think we can agree is not the case with your friend's dh) he has officially resigned from the MO camp, no matter what he calls himself or to what shul he pays membership dues.

"Most of my MO friends are not mechalel shabbos"--good grief! I suppose the next thing you'll say is that most of your MO friends don't believe in Yoshke or celebrate Xmas!

louche

Sun, Sep 12 2010, 11:26 pm

Ok, upon reflection, let's put it a different way: Suppose I said "Most of my charedi friends do not molest children." Can we agree that that would imply that some of my charedi friends do molest children? Can we also agree that saying it that way also implies that their charediness is in some way relevant to the fact of their child molestation?

Now we have had discussions here about charedim who engage in some pretty filthy stuff. Let's remember that arayos fall into the "yehareg ve-al yaavor" category, offenses far more serious than even being mechalel shabbos. I believe that some people argued that a man who consorts with harlots or molests children cannot be considered a frum man, while others argued that he's still a frum man , but one who has a particular besetting sin. And most important, the fact that a charedi man or several charedi men are known s*xual deviants does not mean that s*xual deviance is a characteristic of, accepted by or condoned by the charedi community; nor should such people be held up as examples of what the charedi community is like. Not even as a minority.

So by the same token: a person who professes to be Modern Orthodox and is mechalel shabbos can be viewed in one of two ways: as a person who cannot be considered Orthodox, or as an otherwise Modern orthodox person whose besetting sin is chilul Shabbos. Either way, chilul Shabbos is not a characteristic of, accepted by or condoned by Modern Orthodoxy, and such a person should not be used an example of what Modern Orthodoxy is. Not even as a minority.

every community has its sinners. The sinners in a community do not define the parameters of the community; rather, they defy them.

DrMom

Sun, Sep 12 2010, 11:35 pm

Disgusting. Pure chilul HaShem.

louche

Sun, Sep 12 2010, 11:48 pm

DrMom wrote:

Disgusting. Pure chilul HaShem.

Does anyone take this chickadee seriously? She comes off as a total ditz. I'm religious and we don't use electricity from sundown to sundown, but, oh, golly, you mean models have to work seven days? I guess I'd do that then because, ummm, like, I really really want to be a model. Give me a break, can anyone be that stupid IRL? Somehow I think someone is taking unfair advantage of a mentally defective child.

sequoia

Mon, Sep 13 2010, 12:00 am

I think it was edited to make her look stupid.

DrMom

Mon, Sep 13 2010, 12:03 am

Of course she's a ditz. But she's a ditz who is misrepresenting my religion to millions of people.

Think of all the frum folks who take flak for not working on Shabbat. Now someone could see this and say, "Hey, if you really wanted to succeed, you don't really have to leave work early on Fridays in winter, you don't have to stay home on Shavuot, etc. If you were really motivated, you'd stop whining about your religion and work like the rest of us."

Luckily, very few people in managerial positions will admit to watching this show, but the idea is still there.

Nuts

Mon, Sep 13 2010, 12:57 am

She isn't all that pretty and I wonder if that's her natural bra size.

Tamiri

Mon, Sep 13 2010, 1:17 am

chavs wrote:

I think we can saefely say that she is more modern then orthodox and infact from what I saw I am fairly certain its clear she isnt orthodox at all anymore. It just bothers me she'd go on and say she is frum, I get why she'd want to say she is Jewish but, frum? It really annoys me.

Why do you think they chose her? I don't think it was for her looks or her brain... it was the "interesting" twist that got her on. Look at us, a bunch of observant women, picking her to bits. Doncha think the rest of the world is doing that too? Instant ratings.

amother

Mon, Sep 13 2010, 1:24 am

Nuts wrote:

She isn't all that pretty and I wonder if that's her natural bra size.

Neither are any of them. There is maybe one pretty girl among them....The brunette with the blue eyes...I forgot her name (imagine that!!)

yummymummy

Mon, Sep 13 2010, 1:54 am

amother wrote:

Nuts wrote:

She isn't all that pretty and I wonder if that's her natural bra size.

Neither are any of them. There is maybe one pretty girl among them....The brunette with the blue eyes...I forgot her name (imagine that!!)

They're going for high fashion this season and high fashion does not equal conventional beauty.

ChossidMom

Mon, Sep 13 2010, 2:30 am

Tamiri wrote:

Thank you for providing this evening's entertainment. It's on YouTube, for those who live TV-less, as I do. Cycle 15, episode 1, part 2 minute 6:15 or so. Not really worth wasting your time on. But you knew that. I wasted my time for you. We got a glimpse of her "G" chest in a bra. I am sure there is some Rav out there who gave a heter. The judges aren't Jewish. I don't even think the males are men over there.

lech lecha08

Mon, Sep 13 2010, 3:11 am

DrMom wrote:

You definitely have a point. The teacher in grad school who gave me the hardest time about taking off for chagim and gave me extra homework for leaving a little early on fridays in the winter was someone who used to be somewhat frum but when she went to college, had to take certain exams on Shabbos and her observance went downhill from there.

chavamom

Mon, Sep 13 2010, 3:14 am

I followed Tamiri's suggestion for how to find this on youtube. I'm not sure how it was edited, but it seems like she was saying she was raised MO but is "exploring" now? That seems like she gave herself an out there.

shalhevet

Mon, Sep 13 2010, 3:23 am

freidasima wrote:

Could she be a radical charedi plant to try and discredit the MO?
No I didn't write that. Delete, delete, delete.

Why not? On the other thread we have a radical MO plant trying to discredit the BY, kolel wives.

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